Hi Richard,
Thank you for the information. You are probably correct on the creapage in the flexible material. I have used a hose clamp to prevent movement but it isn't a perfect solution. I don't believe that enough room exists to use a 2nd duplicate NWA router clamp. I doubt that this doubling approach would help. I like your water cooled system. It sounds like your are planning to machine steel. I would like to see some pictures when you get setup and going. You may need to beef-up the z-axis support if you are using a lot of weight. You might consider a couterweight behind the router assembly that will balance out the load and prevent the router assembly from leaning forward.
Back to the router clamp: The barrel of the router is smooth steel. It does have a little dimple that sticks out slightly [maybe 1/16"]. The clamp that NWA provides is rigid plastic with a single bolt and nut that is supposed to lock in the router. The hard plastic against the smooth steel router barrel is a bad start. Also, tightening the plastic is only a temporary solution because the plastic relaxes and takes a set. It doesn't take long and the router barrel is again mobile.
Right now, I use the dimple below this clamping mechanism and a hose clamp above to prevent vertical movement. I can't say that this is an ideal solution but vertical router movement can be disasterous when it occurs while running a toolpath. This approach is keeping me going for now. Maybe I just have to take the time to design a better clamping arrangement.
I wonder if anyone else has a better solution?
Regards,
Ed
PS: I was just thinking that you could make an attachment that attaches to the outside gantry supports. You could connect a pulley to this attachment and then run a weight connected to the router assembly through this pulley. You could adjust the weight so that you could add a heavier load without affecting the z-axis drive and without bending the z-axis forward. The z-axis travel is only 7 inches or less depending on your Shark model and setup. Just a thought.
THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Moderators: al wolford, sbk, Bob, Kayvon
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
I wonder if the following router mount assembly could be modified to work:
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/porter-ca ... p-157.html
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/porter-ca ... p-157.html
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
I am in the process at the moment to replace all the plastic router parts with aluminium to accommodate my water cooled spindle on my HD.
Next will be the gantry parts also made from aluminium.
That will make it an all aluminium machine.
I presume it will be very strong
Cheers
Wolffie
Next will be the gantry parts also made from aluminium.
That will make it an all aluminium machine.
I presume it will be very strong
Cheers
Wolffie
-
Jarel Design
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:45 am
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
router clamping solutions:
smooth to smooth plastic/metal surface contact: rough up one or the other with course sandpaper? not sanding away, but rather scratching?
HUGE lightbulb going on: Plast clamp taking a "set" after clamped tight... makes all the sense in the world! no matter what is done using the plastic router mount, it WILL com loose again... only solution I can see to this is making an aluminum mount... I'm thinking this "should be" (professional term ONLY to be used during "theoretical engineering! LOL) a perfect solution for the least amount of effort... couldn't a 2D drawing be created and actually have the shark cut a new mount? turn it over on it's side and derill/tap the tightening screw(s) configuration?
I purchased a 65mm 1.5kw water cooled spindle... I'm pretty certain this is lighter than the PorterCable router... My primary material to be used in my shark is a urethane modeling plank (RenShape, Raku-Tool and Salmon Plank are trade names... 45# to 60# denisty... ), originally used to test CNC cutting programs rapidly before switching to metal... it cuts like butter! My main reason for starting off with a water cooled spindle is the ability to run it for hours and hours without overheating as well as the incredible reduction in router noise found in air cooled motors...
Probably an over-kill, but I plan on using my Shark a LOT... mostly very small pieces, but lots of detail and lots of accuracy.
The link to the metal router mount looks great! do they make anything to fit the PC router? If not, that design (two part clamp) looks as promising as a re-creation of the original plastic mount in aluminum... Maybe someone out there that has the skills and heart could create a file so that others could cut their own aluminum router mount? Maybe someone has a machinist working nearby that could be shown the plastic mount and the router and ask them to create a copy in aluminum? I would think thgat since this problem seems to be universal with shark owners, that maybe if enough people pre-ordered... that a machinist could create a simple file and cut a few on a larger CNC mill reducing the price of new, aluminum router mounts...?
Just ideas...
I doubt I will be able to send photos of my shark set up since I am refurbishing the shop New piped airlines with multiple regulators around power tools, new insulted walls, drop ceiling new flourescent lighting etc... Then I move some of the heavier floor machines (vacuum formers, lathe, mill compressor to make way for a new spot for the shark, then... I build a table and begin assembling/modifying my shark so that the installation swill be good to go at the start of my learning curve (lol!)
here's a few photos of the kind of things I create and will apply my shark to give me a hand! (Primary and first goal: learn how to scan one half of a part (like a toy vehicle), then process the file and mirror in aspire and cut the oposite side so that I only have to create one half and let the shark create the other... from there, the part gets used in the vacuum former to create the entire vehicle shell...... this will save me SO much work and will forever change how I create the parts that become my prototpes...
ok... coffee is kcking in... tme to get to work.
(Please do know that I haven't even recieved my shark yet and that even though I have been creating professional prototypes for over 25 years, this will be my first CNC device! Can't wait!
Best,
Richard
smooth to smooth plastic/metal surface contact: rough up one or the other with course sandpaper? not sanding away, but rather scratching?
HUGE lightbulb going on: Plast clamp taking a "set" after clamped tight... makes all the sense in the world! no matter what is done using the plastic router mount, it WILL com loose again... only solution I can see to this is making an aluminum mount... I'm thinking this "should be" (professional term ONLY to be used during "theoretical engineering! LOL) a perfect solution for the least amount of effort... couldn't a 2D drawing be created and actually have the shark cut a new mount? turn it over on it's side and derill/tap the tightening screw(s) configuration?
I purchased a 65mm 1.5kw water cooled spindle... I'm pretty certain this is lighter than the PorterCable router... My primary material to be used in my shark is a urethane modeling plank (RenShape, Raku-Tool and Salmon Plank are trade names... 45# to 60# denisty... ), originally used to test CNC cutting programs rapidly before switching to metal... it cuts like butter! My main reason for starting off with a water cooled spindle is the ability to run it for hours and hours without overheating as well as the incredible reduction in router noise found in air cooled motors...
Probably an over-kill, but I plan on using my Shark a LOT... mostly very small pieces, but lots of detail and lots of accuracy.
The link to the metal router mount looks great! do they make anything to fit the PC router? If not, that design (two part clamp) looks as promising as a re-creation of the original plastic mount in aluminum... Maybe someone out there that has the skills and heart could create a file so that others could cut their own aluminum router mount? Maybe someone has a machinist working nearby that could be shown the plastic mount and the router and ask them to create a copy in aluminum? I would think thgat since this problem seems to be universal with shark owners, that maybe if enough people pre-ordered... that a machinist could create a simple file and cut a few on a larger CNC mill reducing the price of new, aluminum router mounts...?
Just ideas...
I doubt I will be able to send photos of my shark set up since I am refurbishing the shop New piped airlines with multiple regulators around power tools, new insulted walls, drop ceiling new flourescent lighting etc... Then I move some of the heavier floor machines (vacuum formers, lathe, mill compressor to make way for a new spot for the shark, then... I build a table and begin assembling/modifying my shark so that the installation swill be good to go at the start of my learning curve (lol!)
here's a few photos of the kind of things I create and will apply my shark to give me a hand! (Primary and first goal: learn how to scan one half of a part (like a toy vehicle), then process the file and mirror in aspire and cut the oposite side so that I only have to create one half and let the shark create the other... from there, the part gets used in the vacuum former to create the entire vehicle shell...... this will save me SO much work and will forever change how I create the parts that become my prototpes...
ok... coffee is kcking in... tme to get to work.
(Please do know that I haven't even recieved my shark yet and that even though I have been creating professional prototypes for over 25 years, this will be my first CNC device! Can't wait!
Best,
Richard
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Just want to add a note on the router clamp. I have the Pro Plus, not the HD and had a similar issue with the plastic clamp and the router slipping. What I did was very simple: the clamp is held in place with 4 bolts, loosen the front 2, then tighten the one horizontal bolt that adds the side pressure, then go back and tighten the front two bolts. I found that the front two bolts were restricting the clamp from making full contact, holding it from moving when tightening the horizontal front bolt.
Again, I don't have an HD and there very well might be a proper size issue, but using this tightening sequence solved this for me on the Pro Plus. Need even more movement? Open the diameter of the front two holes by 1/16".
Again, I don't have an HD and there very well might be a proper size issue, but using this tightening sequence solved this for me on the Pro Plus. Need even more movement? Open the diameter of the front two holes by 1/16".
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Thank you, Bill. I tried this on mine but it didn't seem to help. The PC 892 has a very smooth barrel and the plastic clamp seems to slip. It sounds like your router is more cooperative.BillK wrote:Just want to add a note on the router clamp. I have the Pro Plus, not the HD and had a similar issue with the plastic clamp and the router slipping. What I did was very simple: the clamp is held in place with 4 bolts, loosen the front 2, then tighten the one horizontal bolt that adds the side pressure, then go back and tighten the front two bolts. I found that the front two bolts were restricting the clamp from making full contact, holding it from moving when tightening the horizontal front bolt.
Again, I don't have an HD and there very well might be a proper size issue, but using this tightening sequence solved this for me on the Pro Plus. Need even more movement? Open the diameter of the front two holes by 1/16".
I just got an aluminum block [5" x 5" x 3/4"] that I am doing to machine into a suitable clamp. This shoulld hold better.
Ed
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Hello Richard
You are very correct about the plastic mount deforming over time. Most plastics will tend to "creep" under pressure over time, and this will slowly cause the clamp to lose grip strength.
Also, the shape of the clamp tends to make the end tabs deform where the bolt goes through. Bolting the clamp down in the front before tightening it to the router further reduces the clamping ability.
A different material could be better , and I have made clamps from aluminum that grip very tightly and will not deform.
I have a slightly modified version of the stock clamp, widening the tightening tabs and deepening the recesses for the pins. It can be cut on a shark or by an outside machine shop.
As some of you that contacted me were reluctant to give cutting thick aluminum a try, I asked a machine shop for a price, and they gave me $40.00 in quantities of 1, for the clamp in 3/4" 6061=t6 aluminum material.
The mounting of a water cooled spindle is a bit different as the the spindle body is so long. It needs a wider grip holding it in.
For either the PC or Bosch router, and especially for the spindle, you may want to consider using a "sandwich" of an aluminum clamp in the stock location, with a couple of spacers which would be clamp shaped, (and could be cut from something like 3/4 plywood or plastic), and another aluminum or your old plastic clamp on top. These would all be bolted together through the standard 4 mounting holes, and tightened to the router or spindle, top and bottom. On the upper rear two holes, L brackets can be used to bolt the sandwich clamp assembly to the plastic rear z axis router plate. This would strengthen the whole assembly as the router body now becomes a structural member of the z axis, rather than just a tool being held to it.
Using an aluminum clamp solved any slipping issues and allowed the router to be tightened in very firmly.
When I converted my machine to double clamps, the cut quality improved considerably as I was not holding the router by one central point, letting it "ring" from vibrations.
I have a dxf file of the aluminum HD clamp, just send me a PM if you want it.
Bob
You are very correct about the plastic mount deforming over time. Most plastics will tend to "creep" under pressure over time, and this will slowly cause the clamp to lose grip strength.
Also, the shape of the clamp tends to make the end tabs deform where the bolt goes through. Bolting the clamp down in the front before tightening it to the router further reduces the clamping ability.
A different material could be better , and I have made clamps from aluminum that grip very tightly and will not deform.
I have a slightly modified version of the stock clamp, widening the tightening tabs and deepening the recesses for the pins. It can be cut on a shark or by an outside machine shop.
As some of you that contacted me were reluctant to give cutting thick aluminum a try, I asked a machine shop for a price, and they gave me $40.00 in quantities of 1, for the clamp in 3/4" 6061=t6 aluminum material.
The mounting of a water cooled spindle is a bit different as the the spindle body is so long. It needs a wider grip holding it in.
For either the PC or Bosch router, and especially for the spindle, you may want to consider using a "sandwich" of an aluminum clamp in the stock location, with a couple of spacers which would be clamp shaped, (and could be cut from something like 3/4 plywood or plastic), and another aluminum or your old plastic clamp on top. These would all be bolted together through the standard 4 mounting holes, and tightened to the router or spindle, top and bottom. On the upper rear two holes, L brackets can be used to bolt the sandwich clamp assembly to the plastic rear z axis router plate. This would strengthen the whole assembly as the router body now becomes a structural member of the z axis, rather than just a tool being held to it.
Using an aluminum clamp solved any slipping issues and allowed the router to be tightened in very firmly.
When I converted my machine to double clamps, the cut quality improved considerably as I was not holding the router by one central point, letting it "ring" from vibrations.
I have a dxf file of the aluminum HD clamp, just send me a PM if you want it.
Bob
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Is anyone else getting this error when uploading a file? I have been getting this for two days now.
"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."
"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."
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Jarel Design
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:45 am
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Bob,
It looks as if you have the perfect solution!
WOW! $40 for an aluminum clamp is CHEAP! (especially when you think in terms of this would be considered a "custom pice!)
I ordered two aluminum block clamps to go along with my water cooled spindle (I think they were $35~$50 each PLUS shipping from CHINA!)
This totally sounds like it would solve this problem for a lot of people! (I would guess that the price might even drop a little if a lot of people ordered one? )
Ether way, if I was going with a router instead of the water cooled goodie sitting on my work bench, I'd buy one from you!
Ok... back to work here... client loved the photgraphs and videos but wants changes (same deadline!) All I can do is smile and appreciate the work...
I tried to upload some portfolio sheets but the site here says I'm past my upload quota... I don't have time to learn if I can get rid of other photos I've uploaded (Oh, did I share that I'm computer challenged/digitally illiterate? *huge grin here* Yes, tlearning any of these programs for the shark is going to be a personal challenge of manumental porportions... but I'm determined to learn)... Anyway... If anyone's interested,some of my work can be seen at:
www.jareldesign.com
www.jarelaircraftdesign.com
Love coming here to catch up on what everyone's up to... it's one of the only things that pulls me away from my work bench! LOL
Richard
It looks as if you have the perfect solution!
WOW! $40 for an aluminum clamp is CHEAP! (especially when you think in terms of this would be considered a "custom pice!)
I ordered two aluminum block clamps to go along with my water cooled spindle (I think they were $35~$50 each PLUS shipping from CHINA!)
This totally sounds like it would solve this problem for a lot of people! (I would guess that the price might even drop a little if a lot of people ordered one? )
Ether way, if I was going with a router instead of the water cooled goodie sitting on my work bench, I'd buy one from you!
Ok... back to work here... client loved the photgraphs and videos but wants changes (same deadline!) All I can do is smile and appreciate the work...
I tried to upload some portfolio sheets but the site here says I'm past my upload quota... I don't have time to learn if I can get rid of other photos I've uploaded (Oh, did I share that I'm computer challenged/digitally illiterate? *huge grin here* Yes, tlearning any of these programs for the shark is going to be a personal challenge of manumental porportions... but I'm determined to learn)... Anyway... If anyone's interested,some of my work can be seen at:
www.jareldesign.com
www.jarelaircraftdesign.com
Love coming here to catch up on what everyone's up to... it's one of the only things that pulls me away from my work bench! LOL
Richard
Re: THE NEW MAKO IS HERE!!!
Bob,
That is fantastic. I just sent you a PM. I am also interested in buying a custom clamp for $40. I have a block of aluminum that I was going yo use but I will just save it for something else.
Thank you for excellent information.
Regards,
Ed
That is fantastic. I just sent you a PM. I am also interested in buying a custom clamp for $40. I have a block of aluminum that I was going yo use but I will just save it for something else.
Thank you for excellent information.
Regards,
Ed