shark versus shopbot
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shark versus shopbot
Just wondering if there has ever been a heads-up comparision of the CNC shark next to the shopbot. I build F-5 style mandolins and those who work in this area of woodworking seem to have gravitated toward the shopbot. The price difference is extreme ( the cheapest shopbot is over $8000 USD ). Any information would be appreciated.
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spinningwood
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:28 am
Re: shark versus shopbot
One person's opinion:
I would be surprised to find a comparison between a shopbot and a shark. Shopbot doesn't (but will likely soon) have a low-end "table top" model that would be comparable to the shark. I would characterize the shark as a good entry level machine primarily intended for hobbyists, but with the capabilities to meet the needs of professionals who don't have high volume production requirements, need ultra high precision or need a large work capacity.
Most hobbyists are unlikely to "need" (want is a different matter) to ever upgrade beyond the capabilities of the shark.
Professionals trying to make a buck off cnc in their shops will likely ultimately want to move up to more capable machines. When you start getting into the $10k to $50K+ range, there are a lot of choices out there.
So, what are the extra capabilities the shark doesn't have?
More powerful router options and spindle (some of which cost more than a shark).
High quality servos instead of steppers (Cheap servos can be less precise than steppers). Time is money and the faster a job is off the machine and the less manual processing (aka sanding) needed after machining, the faster the money comes in.
More robust materials / components that can stand up to a production environment.
More robust / comprehensive support and training options (shopbot does a great job here that helps their popularity).
Better packaging of the components (machine, controller and powersupply) into a "tool", rather than an assortment of parts cabled together (e.g. the shark approach).
Other features not available on a shark: automatic tool changing, automatic zero, eStop button that meets safety standards, better jog controls, rotary index, 4th or 5th axis.
All the above is great, but I think you are putting the cart before the horse. The shark is perfectly capable of doing what you need to do to make mandolins. The question you need to ask yourself is "How are you going to create the machine instructions for the shark (or any cnc) to do what you need done?". Are you experienced with CAD / 3D modelling software that can generate toolpaths for CNC? If your are looking to do two axis cutouts that you are going to hand carve to get your 3D contours then it's no big deal. If you are going to try and design 3D components and carve them on the cnc, then you need to get your software choices sorted out before you start worrying about a machine. That's just my opinion though.
Hope some of the above helps.
Ed
I would be surprised to find a comparison between a shopbot and a shark. Shopbot doesn't (but will likely soon) have a low-end "table top" model that would be comparable to the shark. I would characterize the shark as a good entry level machine primarily intended for hobbyists, but with the capabilities to meet the needs of professionals who don't have high volume production requirements, need ultra high precision or need a large work capacity.
Most hobbyists are unlikely to "need" (want is a different matter) to ever upgrade beyond the capabilities of the shark.
Professionals trying to make a buck off cnc in their shops will likely ultimately want to move up to more capable machines. When you start getting into the $10k to $50K+ range, there are a lot of choices out there.
So, what are the extra capabilities the shark doesn't have?
More powerful router options and spindle (some of which cost more than a shark).
High quality servos instead of steppers (Cheap servos can be less precise than steppers). Time is money and the faster a job is off the machine and the less manual processing (aka sanding) needed after machining, the faster the money comes in.
More robust materials / components that can stand up to a production environment.
More robust / comprehensive support and training options (shopbot does a great job here that helps their popularity).
Better packaging of the components (machine, controller and powersupply) into a "tool", rather than an assortment of parts cabled together (e.g. the shark approach).
Other features not available on a shark: automatic tool changing, automatic zero, eStop button that meets safety standards, better jog controls, rotary index, 4th or 5th axis.
All the above is great, but I think you are putting the cart before the horse. The shark is perfectly capable of doing what you need to do to make mandolins. The question you need to ask yourself is "How are you going to create the machine instructions for the shark (or any cnc) to do what you need done?". Are you experienced with CAD / 3D modelling software that can generate toolpaths for CNC? If your are looking to do two axis cutouts that you are going to hand carve to get your 3D contours then it's no big deal. If you are going to try and design 3D components and carve them on the cnc, then you need to get your software choices sorted out before you start worrying about a machine. That's just my opinion though.
Hope some of the above helps.
Ed
Re: shark versus shopbot
Well said ED.
After a year or so with my Shark Pro, It gets 99% of my hobby stuff Done. And yes, there is a difference between want and need......I want speed and .000000001 repeatable cuts but I don't want the $20,000 bill either. AND I confess, with Aspire software, the whole thing is smarter than I am.
After a year or so with my Shark Pro, It gets 99% of my hobby stuff Done. And yes, there is a difference between want and need......I want speed and .000000001 repeatable cuts but I don't want the $20,000 bill either. AND I confess, with Aspire software, the whole thing is smarter than I am.
Re: shark versus shopbot
I like to respond to some of the requested improvements that Ed wrote about in his post.
The new shark Pro plus has a new controller package which is combined with the power supply and the electronics into a single aluminum box. We have a large button EStop that is on the front of it and we're using new connectors that plug into the back. We also are using gecko drive controllers for the Pro plus and will probably faze them in to the other models as well. They have about five times the resolution in provide a level smoothness to the motors that allow us to get up to the speeds of 200 in./m travel.
However even though you couldn't machine faster at the show I did a lot of my machining around 100 inches a minute but it's nice to see it pick up and rapidly moved to the new positions.
We will be providing several different upgrade packages to be able to bring the Pro units closer to the Pro plus models.
We are working on a 12 part series of videos that will cover some of the shortcomings between the Vectric software videos in the translation to using our software and our machine.
There are two new routers that are coming out that will work perfectly with the shark from Porter cable and DEWalt which are 1 1/4 horsepower variable speed through their entire range. I was able to see them at the show but they were not willing to let me have one for testing as of yet.
We are working on improving the software and will be looking for input from people as well as beta testers to try out some of the software.
We are currently have in testing of a 4th axis that will be an add-on to the current machines.
We are in for some exciting times and I'm looking forward to see what everyone is building with their shark.
Tim
The new shark Pro plus has a new controller package which is combined with the power supply and the electronics into a single aluminum box. We have a large button EStop that is on the front of it and we're using new connectors that plug into the back. We also are using gecko drive controllers for the Pro plus and will probably faze them in to the other models as well. They have about five times the resolution in provide a level smoothness to the motors that allow us to get up to the speeds of 200 in./m travel.
However even though you couldn't machine faster at the show I did a lot of my machining around 100 inches a minute but it's nice to see it pick up and rapidly moved to the new positions.
We will be providing several different upgrade packages to be able to bring the Pro units closer to the Pro plus models.
We are working on a 12 part series of videos that will cover some of the shortcomings between the Vectric software videos in the translation to using our software and our machine.
There are two new routers that are coming out that will work perfectly with the shark from Porter cable and DEWalt which are 1 1/4 horsepower variable speed through their entire range. I was able to see them at the show but they were not willing to let me have one for testing as of yet.
We are working on improving the software and will be looking for input from people as well as beta testers to try out some of the software.
We are currently have in testing of a 4th axis that will be an add-on to the current machines.
We are in for some exciting times and I'm looking forward to see what everyone is building with their shark.
Tim
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spinningwood
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:28 am
Re: shark versus shopbot
Tim - If you need beta testers, I would be willing to volunteer.
Ed
Ed
Re: shark versus shopbot
Tim
Add me to the list. I'm a retired machinist.
Buc
Add me to the list. I'm a retired machinist.
Buc
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison
The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday
Thomas A. Edison
The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday
Re: shark versus shopbot
Tim,
I enjoyed talking to you at the show. We had discussed these upgrades.
I did not know you were looking for beta testers...But put me on the list also!
Teir
I enjoyed talking to you at the show. We had discussed these upgrades.
I did not know you were looking for beta testers...But put me on the list also!
Teir
Re: shark versus shopbot
Sounds great Tim, thanks for thinking of us customers (again) that bought just before the Pro Plus came out! I would be the first to purchase a new table that would be level/straight..
Dennis
Dennis
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mark grant
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:41 am
Re: shark versus shopbot
First of all I would like to thank all the posts so far. All had good info. As far as cad/3D experience I have none so had planned to add the scanning probe and 3D software ( I was going to let the machine scan a hand carved top/back ). After reading the descriptions of the upgrades I thought they could handle this. Also the demand in production is only 1-2 mandolins a month. Can the shark handle the volute in the curl on the front and back, I don't know but would love to hear if it can. Thanks to all, Mark.