CNC Shark Forum

Hello!

My Hitachi Router is starting to act up and rather trying to fix it (2 years strong) I was thinking of upgrading to the spindle on Next Waves website. Pros? Cons? Otherwise I am going to upgrade to a heavy duty Porter Cable.

its a lot of money, but if it is worth the price (orr anyone know of a better product?) I don't mind upgrading. I own a Chinese 60W laser, so i am not going to buy any laser attachments.

Thanks!
Tony

I've found upgrading to a spindle motor from a DeWalt D618 to be well worth the price: quieter, more accurate, more torque. The ones I got were these, though at the time they were a combo package:

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... ng-spindle
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... 2kw-1000hz

That one has an ER-20 collet, so will go up to 1/2" bits, but it only comes with one 1/4" collet insert. I switched to a MuscleChuck (type 6A IIRC) and all their collets, including a custom one for 3/16" bits. http://www.musclechuck.com No more button to push, no more two-wrench juggling. Now it's just a 4mm t-handled hex key, quick and simple.

Those spindles will require a non-standard mount bracket in the Shark too. Well, the spindles are a pretty standard 80mm, but NWA prefers routers if their catalog is any indication. I made my spindle mount clamp out of aluminum, but there are other solutions available. Sorry, I don't have links, 'cause I didn't need 'em. There's probably some post here on the forums with it. Probably search for "aluminum router clamp" or some such.

I'll let you in on a secret. If you notice that 1000Hz at the end of the VFD link/description? The rotating speed of the spindle is:

RPM = 60 * VFDFrequency

Which, if you do some quick math on that 1000Hz, oddly enough gets you 60K RPM. Say WHAT? Yup, that's right, the rated 24K RPM is NOT the fastest they will go, even though the default setup does limit it to that. And, it's EASY to do. It's just the "max frequency" parameter in the VFD. Default is 400 = 24000 RPM. I set mine to 600, and now I can run the spindle up to 36000 RPM, and so far it seems perfect, as long as the coolant is flowing. I don't run it long, but spinning a 1/16 or 1/32" solid carbide end mill in aluminum wants something well into the 30K range to get the proper SFM (Surface feet per minute) for a bit that small.

And, there's a MINIMUM frequency setting, and a torque boost setting for those low-RPM situations. I set mine to let me go all the way down to 500 RPM with about 0.5x of the spindle's 3hp available.

You'll have none of those things if you just go with another router. Whether those things important to you or not, well, that's your call .

Anyway, that's the one I use. The liquid cooling was a chore to setup, but that's my fault for doing it the way I did. I love the thing, despite some issues.

Regards,

Thom

I have the spindle setup from Next Wave on both of my Shark CNC machines. I have not had any problems. I have had one for about 2 years and one for a little over a year. They are much quieter than a router.

Barry Anderson

Rando wrote:I've found upgrading to a spindle motor from a DeWalt D618 to be well worth the price: quieter, more accurate, more torque. The ones I got were these, though at the time they were a combo package:

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... ng-spindle
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... 2kw-1000hz

That one has an ER-20 collet, so will go up to 1/2" bits, but it only comes with one 1/4" collet insert. I switched to a MuscleChuck (type 6A IIRC) and all their collets, including a custom one for 3/16" bits. http://www.musclechuck.com No more button to push, no more two-wrench juggling. Now it's just a 4mm t-handled hex key, quick and simple.

Those spindles will require a non-standard mount bracket in the Shark too. Well, the spindles are a pretty standard 80mm, but NWA prefers routers if their catalog is any indication. I made my spindle mount clamp out of aluminum, but there are other solutions available. Sorry, I don't have links, 'cause I didn't need 'em. There's probably some post here on the forums with it. Probably search for "aluminum router clamp" or some such.

I'll let you in on a secret. If you notice that 1000Hz at the end of the VFD link/description? The rotating speed of the spindle is:

RPM = 60 * VFDFrequency

Which, if you do some quick math on that 1000Hz, oddly enough gets you 60K RPM. Say WHAT? Yup, that's right, the rated 24K RPM is NOT the fastest they will go, even though the default setup does limit it to that. And, it's EASY to do. It's just the "max frequency" parameter in the VFD. Default is 400 = 24000 RPM. I set mine to 600, and now I can run the spindle up to 36000 RPM, and so far it seems perfect, as long as the coolant is flowing. I don't run it long, but spinning a 1/16 or 1/32" solid carbide end mill in aluminum wants something well into the 30K range to get the proper SFM (Surface feet per minute) for a bit that small.

And, there's a MINIMUM frequency setting, and a torque boost setting for those low-RPM situations. I set mine to let me go all the way down to 500 RPM with about 0.5x of the spindle's 3hp available.

You'll have none of those things if you just go with another router. Whether those things important to you or not, well, that's your call .

Anyway, that's the one I use. The liquid cooling was a chore to setup, but that's my fault for doing it the way I did. I love the thing, despite some issues.

Regards,

Thom

Thom,
Can I ask for some help?
I am new to the cnc and have recently set up my Shark HD4. I purchased the musclechuck and collet set for my spindle because I needed a 1/2" collet. I am curious to know how the musclechuck is mounted to the spindle though.
Can you help me out?
Thank,
MDHunt

from what I can see, the one advantage is that is 120V for the spindle.
the one disadvantage is you can only use ER11 collets so that limits it to 1/4" bits.
(Fine for my engraving work, bad for heavy woodwork). cheers!

Yes I agree with studio-n on the disadvantage with one exception the ER-11 collets can be fitted to accept 1/8" bits too (I have both the ER-11 1/4" and the ER-11 1/8" collets!). But what he is really stating is that with that spindle and collet arrangement you are limited to only the smaller shank bits (1/4" and under).

But on the other hand it is nice to know you do not need to run additional wiring for 220V because that spindle with its inverter can be installed and plugged into a 110V household outlet.

I have the capability to switch out my water-cooled spindle to a Bosch Router I own whenever I need to use any of my larger router bits (3/8" & 1/2" shanked bits). I have had my CNC Shark HD3 Pro with Extended bed a little over a year now and I have not had a requirement or opportunity to swap spindle with router but it is always nice to know I can whenever the requirement or opportunity arises.

Have NICE DAY!!!

Be SAFE around those AWESOME machines!!!

Sharkcutup

MDHunt wrote: Thom,
Can I ask for some help?
I am new to the cnc and have recently set up my Shark HD4. I purchased the musclechuck and collet set for my spindle because I needed a 1/2" collet. I am curious to know how the musclechuck is mounted to the spindle though.
Can you help me out?
Thank,
MDHunt

Sorry...dozed for a day or so .

First, hopefully you confirmed WHICH musclechuck version/model fits. It's the type 6A, IIRC for the 3HP 80mm (body diameter) spindle motor I have. To put the muscle chuck on, you remove the normal collet-nut and collet-insert, then screw the musclechuck on in the same place where the collet-nut went. The collet-inserts for the musclechuck, for use with <1/2" bits, slide up and into the primary chuck.

If it doesn't fit, it's possible you got the wrong model; all the routers and spindles have a somewhat small set of well-known (if not standard) threads and diameters. Definitely don't cross-thread it or force it on. John (DeRosa, the inventor/machinist) won't be happy .

Just to confirm, let's be sure which model you got. From their page (http://musclechuck.com/types.html) about 2/3 of the way down, you're looking for a type 6A. Be sure to confirm the thread pitch, but it should be pretty easy given the A is 1.0mm, while the type B is 1.5mm.

When you tighten the musclechuck onto the spindle, that should be "Good and Tight", but of course don't over-torque it. My point here is that when you insert the bit, and tighten the hex nut with that 4mm wrench, do NOT tighten it like you did the musclechuck itself. Make it firm and tight, but there's no need to severely over-torque the clamping bolt. You'll figure it out, I'm sure .....

Hope that helps!

Thom

Rando wrote:

MDHunt wrote: Thom,
Can I ask for some help?
I am new to the cnc and have recently set up my Shark HD4. I purchased the musclechuck and collet set for my spindle because I needed a 1/2" collet. I am curious to know how the musclechuck is mounted to the spindle though.
Can you help me out?
Thank,
MDHunt

Sorry...dozed for a day or so .

First, hopefully you confirmed WHICH musclechuck version/model fits. It's the type 6A, IIRC for the 3HP 80mm (body diameter) spindle motor I have. To put the muscle chuck on, you remove the normal collet-nut and collet-insert, then screw the musclechuck on in the same place where the collet-nut went. The collet-inserts for the musclechuck, for use with <1/2" bits, slide up and into the primary chuck.

If it doesn't fit, it's possible you got the wrong model; all the routers and spindles have a somewhat small set of well-known (if not standard) threads and diameters. Definitely don't cross-thread it or force it on. John (DeRosa, the inventor/machinist) won't be happy .

Just to confirm, let's be sure which model you got. From their page (http://musclechuck.com/types.html) about 2/3 of the way down, you're looking for a type 6A. Be sure to confirm the thread pitch, but it should be pretty easy given the A is 1.0mm, while the type B is 1.5mm.

When you tighten the musclechuck onto the spindle, that should be "Good and Tight", but of course don't over-torque it. My point here is that when you insert the bit, and tighten the hex nut with that 4mm wrench, do NOT tighten it like you did the musclechuck itself. Make it firm and tight, but there's no need to severely over-torque the clamping bolt. You'll figure it out, I'm sure .....

Hope that helps!

Thom

Thanks for the reply, I laughed when I read that you 'dozed for a day or so'. Haha
The model I received is the 6B. I was not at home to verify when I ordered the muscle chuck and after speaking to one of the techs there at Muscle chuck, he sent me the B type. I will remove the collet insert on the spindle and check the threading. If it doesn't fit, which I am assuming will be the case, I'll just call them tomorrow and return it for the 6A type.
Thanks for your help!
MD

MDHunt wrote:

Rando wrote:

MDHunt wrote: Thom,
Can I ask for some help?
I am new to the cnc and have recently set up my Shark HD4. I purchased the musclechuck and collet set for my spindle because I needed a 1/2" collet. I am curious to know how the musclechuck is mounted to the spindle though.
Can you help me out?
Thank,
MDHunt

Sorry...dozed for a day or so .

First, hopefully you confirmed WHICH musclechuck version/model fits. It's the type 6A, IIRC for the 3HP 80mm (body diameter) spindle motor I have. To put the muscle chuck on, you remove the normal collet-nut and collet-insert, then screw the musclechuck on in the same place where the collet-nut went. The collet-inserts for the musclechuck, for use with <1/2" bits, slide up and into the primary chuck.

If it doesn't fit, it's possible you got the wrong model; all the routers and spindles have a somewhat small set of well-known (if not standard) threads and diameters. Definitely don't cross-thread it or force it on. John (DeRosa, the inventor/machinist) won't be happy .

Just to confirm, let's be sure which model you got. From their page (http://musclechuck.com/types.html) about 2/3 of the way down, you're looking for a type 6A. Be sure to confirm the thread pitch, but it should be pretty easy given the A is 1.0mm, while the type B is 1.5mm.

When you tighten the musclechuck onto the spindle, that should be "Good and Tight", but of course don't over-torque it. My point here is that when you insert the bit, and tighten the hex nut with that 4mm wrench, do NOT tighten it like you did the musclechuck itself. Make it firm and tight, but there's no need to severely over-torque the clamping bolt. You'll figure it out, I'm sure .....

Hope that helps!

Thom

Thanks for the reply, I laughed when I read that you 'dozed for a day or so'. Haha
The model I received is the 6B. I was not at home to verify when I ordered the muscle chuck and after speaking to one of the techs there at Muscle chuck, he sent me the B type. I will remove the collet insert on the spindle and check the threading. If it doesn't fit, which I am assuming will be the case, I'll just call them tomorrow and return it for the 6A type.
Thanks for your help!
MD

So Musclechuck was not open today, so I sent them an email with my question. My question to you is how exactly do you attach the Musclechuck to the spindle? Am I supposed to remove the three allen screws on the bottom of the spindle?
I asked Musclechuck for some detailed instructions on this, but since you have already done it, I figured I would ask you.
Thanks,
MD

Three set screws? Your spindle motor rotating parts should look like this:
You remove the collet nut and collet insert from the rotating part of the spindle. The threads specified on the Musclechuck must match those on the end, as shown in the picture. All you do is put the collet nut and collet insert away in a drawer, and screw the musclechuck onto those threads. Tighten, period, you're done. If you are thinking it's more than that, um, well, you're overthinking it.

There might be three set screws on the bottom face, but no, you only remove those to service the bearings. The ONLY things you should need to remove for the musclechuck are the collet nut and collet insert, unless the business-end of your spindle is one heck of a lot different than any spindle I've come across! I suppose I'll let you post a photo to show what you mean...

Thom