4th axis for a Shark HD?

[HalInTexas]

After retiring earlier this year, I wanted a hobby combining my love of woodworking, photography and previous experience with software… and I decided on CNC routing. My next decision was which software & hardware and the selection was pretty easy with a Rockler Shark HD. Cost versus features, and product support were the deal clinchers.
The biggest negative I found with the Shark was the lack of 4th axis support. Does anyone know if & when Rockler plans to support this feature. And if supported, is their plan an entirely new base machine or an add-on to the Shark HD?
I’m going to make my purchase in early September so any comments are greatly appreciated.

[milo30]

It is still being developed we are told. It has been said on here that lack of rigidity of the gantry is causing problems. It is suppose to be use on the existing machine but I think they are trying to rotate the router for it. I sent you a pm

[HalInTexas]

Jeb, Thanks for the rapid reply...

Is there a way I can view the comments from the Beta testers on the 4th axis setup? I have lots of grand ideas I want to execute now that I have some free time. Many of the ideas would be nicer with a 4th axis setup. Of course I will need to run through the paces with the base system and how well the software integrates with the Shark.

If I can't review the beta comments, can we use this topic to reply to questions such as:
. How well is the software integrated?
. What are the target specs for the working area of the 4th axis?
. Is the solution an integrated product?

FYI... Nice work on the spindles and it shows the product is coming along fairly well. Are the spindles "quickly" reproducible?

[Wolffie1]

The honeycomb spindle is one of 2 legs for a bench I'm working on. The honeycomb spindle was my 3rd rotary project...

OOOOHHHH, I really like that honeycomb.
I think all apiarists will too.
Cheers
Wolffie

[rungemach]

Well, actually, it has been promised "next quarter" for over 3 years. Always with a new reason for why it did not materialize. Many times NWA said, "waiting for a new release of software from Vectic", when other machines have been doing fine with Vectric software for their 4th axis.
Yes, the better Vectric software gets, the better the whole process will work, but I fear it has been a significant hardware issue which has been quietly in the background. Thanks to Joe for getting this more out in the open, it should have been NWA directly.

The sideways router mounting has always been a curious design choice. That puts a lot of added moment on the gantry and would cause large inaccuracies on a non-hd machine. Now, even the HD's which were supposed to have no flex are having problems with it. It seems the HD gantry was not perfect either ( as you users have pointed out and fixed on your own), and it appears the next Shark series to come may be even more reinforced. The fact that NWA claimed it would be useable on all the older Non-HD sharks was very interesting, given how weak their gantry's are.

This whole 4th axis thing has been an ongoing litany of excuses since it was first promised for year end in December of 2010. Joe has been
beta testing for something like year and a half. ( please correct me if I'm wrong here)

I think its time for NWA to "man up" and take ownership of the missed promises and give a true accounting of what is going on. When they did speak, they have been quick to shift the focus to "waiting for Vectric", which I feel was unfair to Vectric, when the machine weakness seemed to not be mentioned as often (if at all). NWA tends to remain silent on things that they don't want to talk about, and so often blaming Vectric for the delays I feel was unfair, when it seems to have been the hardware all along.

I know some will disagree, and unconditionally love their Sharks and NWA. Sometimes this forum has been a bit tough on folks that don't have good experiences to relate. ( I feel it is a good way to prompt improvements.) I have been sitting with a lathe that was purchased from Rockler on Tim's suggestion over a year and a half ago (when the product was "absolutely ready to go"), and nothing but excuses since. Just like this January when it was going to ship at the end of the month. Now its mid August and no date in sight.

I think it is quite unfair to existing customers that the whole story has not been told on this, and it has gotten lost in NWA silence for months and years at a time. Sorry to sound a bit unhappy about this, but it IMHO it has been a disaster, mostly shrouded in silence, and covered by unfair misdirected blame at Vectric.

I think it is time for NWA to "own' their shortcomings and drop the silence and misdirection, they will be a better company for doing it.

The users and Rockler deserve no less.

[4DThinker]

I have to agree with Rungemach on this topic.

For what it is worth, a couple of clever forum members have come up with a (frankly amazing) way to turn the Y axis into a functional rotating controller. It doesn't require remounting the router, and would probably work with the A axis output on the controller by simply plugging the Y cable into the A port.

For even less effort, I've come up with an indexing mount for the T-track tables. It lets me cut on 2, 3, 4, 6, or 8 sides of a spindle, and since the indexing wheel is cut on the Shark another wheel for 5 and 7 sides would be easy to make. My parts are at the powder coater or I'd post a few images here.

4D

[radman]

4Dthinker would you care to elaborate on what you have done. I know I would be interested and I am sure there are others as well.
Tom

[rungemach]

Here is the thread for Bob's Super Simple 4th axis, which 4D mentioned earlier. I is a wonderful idea that was expanded on by other group members.
http://www.cncsharktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1521

The Chinese lathe that was initially supposed to come with the NWA 4th axis is IMHO quite heavy and bulky.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page ... te=ROCKLER
I fitted a stepper to mine with a belt drive. it was quite easy to do and is fully returnable to stock configuration.
The problem is that the router must be turned sideways to make this setup work. not convenient at all.

4D's setup , or the Bob's design, with a stepper mounted might be a great alternative without the router mount issues. The work piece diameter might be limited to your free clearance under the router carriage, but that isn't the end of the world.

4D, if you do mount a stepper, I suggest a timing belt drive system to give you better resolution, maybe 4 to 1 reduction.
You will still have to get the NWA controller to run it, or just position and lock one axis over the centerline and use that motor channel for the stepper. Bob's design does it with the y, you could also do it with the x with the headstock and tailstock mounted to the tabletop (or an extension).

I see this setup in quite a few places, but again, interfacing to the NWA controller (as the 4th axis A) will most likely never be supported

I'm always impressed with the things that you guys (the user community) can come up with.

[4DThinker]

4Dthinker would you care to elaborate on what you have done. I know I would be interested and I am sure there are others as well.
Tom

I sure will, but the brackets are at the powder coater at the moment. Basically two pieces of 3" x 3" x 1/4" thick aluminum angle. Both have two holes in the bottom for bolts to slide into the t-track. One is the indexing side, with a center hole to hold the index wheel, and two small 5mm holes for pins to engage the wheel. The other end is simple an adjustable dead-center pin to support the other end of the workpiece. The brackets can be slid into the t-track parallel to the X or Y axis, or even at 45 degrees for longer cut length.

When I get the pieces back I'll post some photos. The index plate I cut from 3/8" plastic, and as I stated above can be used for 2,3,4,6,and 8 sided cutting. It has screw holes for screwing into the end of the workpiece. Making a new one for 5 or 7 (or 9 or more) holes is simple.