It happened to me again today. I was in the process of cutting a picture frame. This was my first time to try a project that I had to machine both sides. One of my files was to drill holes to use dowels to line the work up when I flipped the board. Somewhere in the process, unfortunately caught too late, I found that when it finished a file, it should have gone back to zero but instead it was showing .19 on the X. I jogged it back to the saved zero but that still was off. Luckily it was the back of the project so I can hide it and correct it with a chisel. I was operating without a dust boot and using a slow speed in MDF so there was no reason for it to happen that I can find. Luckily I had drilled a hole right on the zero spot so getting it back into the correct zero was an option this time but not always so.
I know this has been talked about lately as an issue some are having. It is definitely an intermittent problem but one that I need to get fixed. I tried searching to see if anyone ever found a solution but did not find a post of one. Has anyone gotten any answers on this yet?
Another machine not returning to zero
Moderators: ddw, al wolford, sbk, Bob, Kayvon
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
I see this every now and then from students using the Shark HD 2.0 in my college furniture lab. With no exception it is a result of them having a toolpath run outside the hard limits of the Shark. Depending on which side of their project this happens on it resets that X or Y home point by the amount it tried to go past the limits. Usually it is a small amount and often not noticed other than a tiny part of a line that wasn't cut near an edge.
This can also happen if there is friction/drag/slipping on your lead screws. Check the coupler screws.
This can also happen if there is friction/drag/slipping on your lead screws. Check the coupler screws.
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
If it were an issue of missing steps due to hitting an end stop, friction, loose coupler, etc wouldn't the display return to 0,0,0 as the controller would be unaware of the issue ? There may be software issues here.
The table can be marked pretty easily to be sure the work is within the machine limits in the x and y. The z is trickier in that you have to allow for the tool lift both at startup and during running.
Hitting the end stops puts a very large load on the coupler and lead screw nut, and can loosen a coupler. Limit switches can help prevent this type of thing.
The table can be marked pretty easily to be sure the work is within the machine limits in the x and y. The z is trickier in that you have to allow for the tool lift both at startup and during running.
Hitting the end stops puts a very large load on the coupler and lead screw nut, and can loosen a coupler. Limit switches can help prevent this type of thing.
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
I have not experienced this since I put an APS in front of the electronics - 3 years now (showing a value other than 0, 0 for x and y at the end of a job). If I am seeing 0,0 on the SCP, but the cutter 'isn't there' - I lean toward coupler in my case. I have marked the limits on the table as Bob has stated - and in general my jigs are in known 'good' locations.
Another potential cause of this - I've seen some folks who in the end found an intermittent connector on the motor - and the condition was caused/forced by tension when the gantry/carriage was in certain positions or areas of the table. Somewhat repeatable but not always. You may want to check for tension on the cabling near the motors. Need to make the time to come up with the exhaustive list.
What you describe feels like a missed step - but as these are steppers, and the last line in the tap file is move to 0,0, safe height - yet the panel showed a z not zero - and when you moved to 0,0,0 it was 'off' - it is more likely interference/cabling of some sort - at least from my perspective and experience.
I agree that it feels like software - but if the job ran to the end - I think it is a transmission thing.
4D's point is well made - and every now and then I have something not 3/4 - 1" tall and am using a longer bit and have to remind myself to pay attention to this - we saw this again recently on the forum as it affected z in that case. But again, at the end of the job the panel was showing 0,0, safe height - the tool wasn't there of course.
Another potential cause of this - I've seen some folks who in the end found an intermittent connector on the motor - and the condition was caused/forced by tension when the gantry/carriage was in certain positions or areas of the table. Somewhat repeatable but not always. You may want to check for tension on the cabling near the motors. Need to make the time to come up with the exhaustive list.
What you describe feels like a missed step - but as these are steppers, and the last line in the tap file is move to 0,0, safe height - yet the panel showed a z not zero - and when you moved to 0,0,0 it was 'off' - it is more likely interference/cabling of some sort - at least from my perspective and experience.
I agree that it feels like software - but if the job ran to the end - I think it is a transmission thing.
4D's point is well made - and every now and then I have something not 3/4 - 1" tall and am using a longer bit and have to remind myself to pay attention to this - we saw this again recently on the forum as it affected z in that case. But again, at the end of the job the panel was showing 0,0, safe height - the tool wasn't there of course.
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
at the risk of oversimplifying this, I look at these types of issues as two different situations.
1) control panel does not show zero
2) control panel shows zero.
1) If the control panel does not show zero, there may be an issue with the controller or software that is causing the controller part of the control box to think it is not at the zero point, or failing to update the pc to show that it does think it is at the zero point. This would all be upstream of the motor drivers, cables, steppers, couplers, etc. Dirty power, memory card, software glitch, etc could be prime suspects. If the control panel does not show zero, all bets are off as to where the router actually is.
Adding a pure sine wave UPS on the controller may be a good idea, as Joe suggests. If you don't want to get a UPS big enough to handle the router , power the router separately and turn it on manually.
2) Controller showing zero and router not at zero would generally indicate problems downstream of the controller part of the control box itself. That is where the motor drivers, cables, steppers, couplers, lead screw nuts, friction, and hitting end stops can be the prime suspects. Although job speed and acceleration rates can come into play as well. For some reason, the steppers do not execute all the steps the controller has asked for, (at the speed it has asked them to accelerate or move) and there is now a discrepancy between where the controller thinks the router is and where it actually is.
Although there can be some overlap, I hope this helps explain how I would go about diagnosing the symptoms.
1) control panel does not show zero
2) control panel shows zero.
1) If the control panel does not show zero, there may be an issue with the controller or software that is causing the controller part of the control box to think it is not at the zero point, or failing to update the pc to show that it does think it is at the zero point. This would all be upstream of the motor drivers, cables, steppers, couplers, etc. Dirty power, memory card, software glitch, etc could be prime suspects. If the control panel does not show zero, all bets are off as to where the router actually is.
Adding a pure sine wave UPS on the controller may be a good idea, as Joe suggests. If you don't want to get a UPS big enough to handle the router , power the router separately and turn it on manually.
2) Controller showing zero and router not at zero would generally indicate problems downstream of the controller part of the control box itself. That is where the motor drivers, cables, steppers, couplers, lead screw nuts, friction, and hitting end stops can be the prime suspects. Although job speed and acceleration rates can come into play as well. For some reason, the steppers do not execute all the steps the controller has asked for, (at the speed it has asked them to accelerate or move) and there is now a discrepancy between where the controller thinks the router is and where it actually is.
Although there can be some overlap, I hope this helps explain how I would go about diagnosing the symptoms.
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
I recently had my machine occasionally stop sort of zero plus it was ramping text when I had selected Quick Text. There is no option to ramp in Quick Text. I had a Tech from VCarve review a couple files - he found nothing. I suspected the problem was not in the .tap files as the problems seem random.
Last night I was reading some old posts and found one about static electricity buildup and discharge from running vacuum systems.
Today, I wrapped wire around my shop vacuum hose and grounded or earthed the wire. All morning I ran the machine without any problems. (Other than mine)
If you have a shop vac or other vacuum system,you might try this to see if it helps.
Last night I was reading some old posts and found one about static electricity buildup and discharge from running vacuum systems.
Today, I wrapped wire around my shop vacuum hose and grounded or earthed the wire. All morning I ran the machine without any problems. (Other than mine)
If you have a shop vac or other vacuum system,you might try this to see if it helps.
I don't know how I ever had time for a real job ....
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
I have spent the last 40+ years trying to find hardware and software problems in very very large telephone systems. Belive me at time's I was afrade they would never let me go home again unless we found a fix to some of the problems I have seen. The worst problems I have ever worked on were the very random ones.
Some of the thing I have learned is grounding is as much of a art form as it is a science . To ground your dust collector you should have a bare wire run inside any plastic hose or pipe . It should be grounded on the dust collector side ONLY. You do not want to ground it to the router or the shark. Do not run the cord from the router with the control cables. If the router has a bad bruse and at time it arc a little this may be all that is need to cause the system to lose a step.
Does your router have a 3 wire cord or a 2 wire cord. ???? Is it very dry in your shop ???? is there any other machine running in your shop at the time this happens???? Is your shark controller and PC on a grounded circuit.???? Do you belive the electric in your hose is grounded to code.????
In fact I have my router plug directly into the wall outlet to keep any nose the router may make as far from the shark controller as possible. I have lost my X or Y or Z setting at time's and I have always been able to trace it back to something dumb I did.
This may be a crazy long shot but it may work If you have an AM radio and it is not on a station you should here a hiss , set it close to your shark and if possible use a gang plug so the radio and router are on the same power outlet. If you run your cut do you here the hiss start to crackel or pop at time like it is picking up electrical noise from the router or some other motor or apliance in you house.
Some of the thing I have learned is grounding is as much of a art form as it is a science . To ground your dust collector you should have a bare wire run inside any plastic hose or pipe . It should be grounded on the dust collector side ONLY. You do not want to ground it to the router or the shark. Do not run the cord from the router with the control cables. If the router has a bad bruse and at time it arc a little this may be all that is need to cause the system to lose a step.
Does your router have a 3 wire cord or a 2 wire cord. ???? Is it very dry in your shop ???? is there any other machine running in your shop at the time this happens???? Is your shark controller and PC on a grounded circuit.???? Do you belive the electric in your hose is grounded to code.????
In fact I have my router plug directly into the wall outlet to keep any nose the router may make as far from the shark controller as possible. I have lost my X or Y or Z setting at time's and I have always been able to trace it back to something dumb I did.
This may be a crazy long shot but it may work If you have an AM radio and it is not on a station you should here a hiss , set it close to your shark and if possible use a gang plug so the radio and router are on the same power outlet. If you run your cut do you here the hiss start to crackel or pop at time like it is picking up electrical noise from the router or some other motor or apliance in you house.
drueth
Shark Pro Plus HD
new to CNC 12/2012
Shark Pro Plus HD
new to CNC 12/2012
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
I'll try to answer all that I can.
No dust collection used because it was corian and I knew it would build up static elec.
It was definitely cut inside the sharks operating area. The last thing I do after planing the table is to run a 1/4" end mill around the edge to ensure that I stay inside the working area.
All of the files cut correctly, it is just a matter of the machine not returning to the zero at the end. Even if it had moved during the cut I'd think that it would still come to rest at 0.0 even though it might not be the true 0.0. In this case and my other occurrences, it comes to rest showing a different location such as Y-0 X- .019.
The only electronics that were used was the shop vac. I did turn it on occasionally and vacuum up the material being thrown on the floor a few time.
The shop is dry
3 wire cord
I wouldn't mind putting a UPS on the machine. Got a recommendation for one?
I used the machine again today, no issues. It is time to lubricate it again so I'll check all the connectors, nuts bolts, etc. and clean out the control box. The bad thing is that I won't know if it is fixed because it might be months before it happens again.
I've seen some sites and they say the machine itself needs to be grounded. Does anyone ground their shark?
No dust collection used because it was corian and I knew it would build up static elec.
It was definitely cut inside the sharks operating area. The last thing I do after planing the table is to run a 1/4" end mill around the edge to ensure that I stay inside the working area.
All of the files cut correctly, it is just a matter of the machine not returning to the zero at the end. Even if it had moved during the cut I'd think that it would still come to rest at 0.0 even though it might not be the true 0.0. In this case and my other occurrences, it comes to rest showing a different location such as Y-0 X- .019.
The only electronics that were used was the shop vac. I did turn it on occasionally and vacuum up the material being thrown on the floor a few time.
The shop is dry
3 wire cord
I wouldn't mind putting a UPS on the machine. Got a recommendation for one?
I used the machine again today, no issues. It is time to lubricate it again so I'll check all the connectors, nuts bolts, etc. and clean out the control box. The bad thing is that I won't know if it is fixed because it might be months before it happens again.
I've seen some sites and they say the machine itself needs to be grounded. Does anyone ground their shark?
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
This is what I use - http://www.amazon.com/APC-BR1000G-Back- ... ds=apc+ups.
Again, this is not intended on my part to serve as a battery backup. It has slightly over 8 amps capacity and you can get the next size up if you're concerned about that. It does provide conditioned power, and enables the Shark (and router) to continue to operate during the off/on switch conditions I experience here.
If this particular project always returns to 0.19 for you right now - I wouldn't mind getting the tap file to look at. I doubt there is an error per se in the tap file, but if it does result in this condition - useful for further investigation as to why.
Again, this is not intended on my part to serve as a battery backup. It has slightly over 8 amps capacity and you can get the next size up if you're concerned about that. It does provide conditioned power, and enables the Shark (and router) to continue to operate during the off/on switch conditions I experience here.
If this particular project always returns to 0.19 for you right now - I wouldn't mind getting the tap file to look at. I doubt there is an error per se in the tap file, but if it does result in this condition - useful for further investigation as to why.
Re: Another machine not returning to zero
No, it doesn't do it with a specific file. Here's the file. This is just something that occurs now and then. I first noticed it a couple of months ago I guess. May have happened more than I know as usually when I am done I just jog the router out of the way and never have a reason to notice it. When I ran the file I did add tabs to it but took them out just to get him a good picture with the waste removed.
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