Good afternoon everyone! I'm getting dangerously close to pulling the trigger on a Shark HD4. Why the Shark versus other machines? Well, being a newbie, I want a turn-key package. I also want to deal with one company if something does go wrong. I also don't mind the fact that it runs off 110v so I don't have to add any circuits out in my garage.
I do have a few questions before I embark on this journey. To give you an idea of my usage, I will start off by saying that I'm just a hobbyist right now. I mainly want to start off my journey by making things for myself as well as my friends and family. One of my friends is currently starting a board game company and has expressed interest in having me make some stuff, but my guess is that will be limited for the time being. My ultimate goal would be that I'd be able to sell some different things (I've got lots and lots of ideas written down) that would help pay off the machine. I would like to eventually make enough of a side business that I could teach my kids about design work, marketing, manufacturing, etc. I enjoy my day job, so I'm not looking to quit that by any means (I do industrial/manufacturing engineering). I would eventually like to get into making bass guitar bodies, carving gun stocks, and maybe even starting my own custom line of each, but that is very "pie in the sky" dreams of mine. My thoughts are to do more 2D and 2.5D stuff while I learn the machine and design aspects and then step up to some of the 3D ideas that I have. Now that you know what I'm looking to do, we'll get on with the questions!
1) I've been looking at the HD4 with the extended bed. Is it really worth the extra $1000 to step up to the 50" cut length? I know that I could do the tiling toolpaths, but how much of a pain really is that?
2) Rockler is currently running a deal where you get the water cooled spindle for half price. I'm going that route anyway due to the decreased noise factor. Am I looking at this correctly that the NWA spindle needs to be turned on and off manually, that the controller will not do this? Not a big deal, just wrapping my head around it.
3) The spindle appears to accept 1/4" shank bits. Any reason to be concerned with that? Any situations where you "need" a 1/2" shank?
4) I like the idea of a laser engraver, but is the NWA offering actually worth anything? Is it a glorified wood burner or will it be able to actually etch hardwood? I'd like to be able to have like a 1/16" or 1/32" depth etch in some of my projects, not just a surface burn that sanding removes.
5) Carving on a curve..... Am I assuming correctly that I would need Aspire or similar 3D modeling software to accomplish this? I'm thinking things like scene carving on gun stocks and foregrips. This would also affect my desire to purchase the touch probe and 4th axis eventually.
Thank you in advance for your help in getting me on this journey!
Newbie looking at an HD4
Moderators: ddw, al wolford, sbk, Bob, Kayvon
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
The HD4 Extended has a 48" x 24" cutting length.
The spindle does not connect directly to the control box. It is a stand alone spindle that is 110v and has to be turned on by itself. You need a bucket of water next to the machine for cooling and it comes with it's own control box to run it.
Depending on what you want, the spindle is a good deal, because it's just $500 more. The spindle if you buy it by itself, it's $800.
It really depends on how much you actually want your startup cost to be.
Like you stated, the laser is not very powerful. It is only 2.5 watts, so it really only etches.
With the HD4 extended, you get the full Vectric V-Carve 8.5 program. On the standard HD4, you only get desktop version and it's another $350 to upgrade.
So if you consider the $1,000 expense, $350 of that is for the program.
If you want something heavy duty, there are other CNC machines out there. Most of them do not come with the software so there is another cost added.
The HD4 is also the newest model that Next Wave has come out with.
The HD3 Slimline is the same money and it comes with a 18" x 36" cutting table.
Good luck on your woodworking.
The spindle does not connect directly to the control box. It is a stand alone spindle that is 110v and has to be turned on by itself. You need a bucket of water next to the machine for cooling and it comes with it's own control box to run it.
Depending on what you want, the spindle is a good deal, because it's just $500 more. The spindle if you buy it by itself, it's $800.
It really depends on how much you actually want your startup cost to be.
Like you stated, the laser is not very powerful. It is only 2.5 watts, so it really only etches.
With the HD4 extended, you get the full Vectric V-Carve 8.5 program. On the standard HD4, you only get desktop version and it's another $350 to upgrade.
So if you consider the $1,000 expense, $350 of that is for the program.
If you want something heavy duty, there are other CNC machines out there. Most of them do not come with the software so there is another cost added.
The HD4 is also the newest model that Next Wave has come out with.
The HD3 Slimline is the same money and it comes with a 18" x 36" cutting table.
Good luck on your woodworking.
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
I am also a newbie and have had my HD4 for 3 weeks now.
One correction to the above, it also comes with the full V-Carve Pro, not a desktop version.
The Spindle is worth the money, it is quiet and works well so far. Yes, 1/4" Collet is limiting but I have all the bits I need in 1/4" shank. I also have a Dewalt Router if I really want a 1/2" shank for a job.
After a tech support inquiry because my Spindle didn't have any documentation, they eventually sent me a paper to show different programming settings. In there it shows some connections that can make it remote operated, meaning from the HD4 Controller, but I have no cable supplied to make this happen.
I have again asked Tech support if this is true and again have been waiting for 3 days now for an answer.
So, there is the real reason to think carefully about buying a Shark CNC. You only have to read this forum for a short time to realize that their support sucks.
1) a silly registration debacle where I couldn't use my machine on the weekend I purchased it because their Registration Website doesn't work. After sending a scathing email about it I was contacted by Ron who said he was appointed as a VP to get support working properly.
2) I then sent a 3 question email to Tech support , It took 9 days to receive a reply, and only after I had repeated the email 3 times. They said the delay was just a mixup of the email system. Well, I guess it is mixed up again.
3) As above, I have asked about the cable to connect to the CNC Controller as per the paper they sent me, and it has now been 3 days and counting.
4) The manual tells you to go to a webpage and get an update file for the LCD Pendant and load it via the USB. You can scour their website but there is no file for the upgrade.
If you are willing to tinker with it and rely on the support of this forum to get you going and DIY, then the Shark is a good starter, and the same reason I took the chance. If not, I would spend the extra 1500 and get the other machine Rockler sells. Seems much better made but I have heard it said here that most companies support suck too.
I run a tech support dept for a small company who's products cost a fraction of the 4.4K that NWA charges and we respond within minutes to most inquiries, even on weekends. There is no excuse for not supporting your products.
Sorry if that seemed like a rant, but rather have all the facts.
Liam
One correction to the above, it also comes with the full V-Carve Pro, not a desktop version.
The Spindle is worth the money, it is quiet and works well so far. Yes, 1/4" Collet is limiting but I have all the bits I need in 1/4" shank. I also have a Dewalt Router if I really want a 1/2" shank for a job.
After a tech support inquiry because my Spindle didn't have any documentation, they eventually sent me a paper to show different programming settings. In there it shows some connections that can make it remote operated, meaning from the HD4 Controller, but I have no cable supplied to make this happen.
I have again asked Tech support if this is true and again have been waiting for 3 days now for an answer.
So, there is the real reason to think carefully about buying a Shark CNC. You only have to read this forum for a short time to realize that their support sucks.
1) a silly registration debacle where I couldn't use my machine on the weekend I purchased it because their Registration Website doesn't work. After sending a scathing email about it I was contacted by Ron who said he was appointed as a VP to get support working properly.
2) I then sent a 3 question email to Tech support , It took 9 days to receive a reply, and only after I had repeated the email 3 times. They said the delay was just a mixup of the email system. Well, I guess it is mixed up again.
3) As above, I have asked about the cable to connect to the CNC Controller as per the paper they sent me, and it has now been 3 days and counting.
4) The manual tells you to go to a webpage and get an update file for the LCD Pendant and load it via the USB. You can scour their website but there is no file for the upgrade.
If you are willing to tinker with it and rely on the support of this forum to get you going and DIY, then the Shark is a good starter, and the same reason I took the chance. If not, I would spend the extra 1500 and get the other machine Rockler sells. Seems much better made but I have heard it said here that most companies support suck too.
I run a tech support dept for a small company who's products cost a fraction of the 4.4K that NWA charges and we respond within minutes to most inquiries, even on weekends. There is no excuse for not supporting your products.
Sorry if that seemed like a rant, but rather have all the facts.
Liam
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
I have the standard size HD4 and it only came with the desktop program. When I bought mine, it came with the laser package that I haven't even taken out of the box.
After looking at other makers of CNC machines, and reading several forums, i have to agree that tech support is a issue. Every machine has it's problems and issues.
My take on these machines are simple.
It is assumed that we all know how to run these machines and how they all work. Just look at the manuals that come with these machines. They assume you know how to put them together and run them. Next Wave manual has to be downloaded and trying to understand it isn't that easy.
I know I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you have to be kidding!
The reason tech support is hard to get hold of is because they are on the phones all day trying to explain what the manual doesn't.
Next Wave, Axiom and many other companies are somewhat new to the small shop woodworker market. I am sure they will eventually get things worked out, but when a home woodworker spends this kind of money, they want the machine to work and have tech support to assist when needed.
These machines are the most expensive tools we have and are the hardest to learn how to use them.
I don't have all the answers, I bought the CNC to be able to make things that would be difficult if not impossible to make using conventional tools.
Additionally, the learning curve is much longer than I expected. Some of it is from not ever working with cad software before and some from getting the machine to work properly.
After looking at other makers of CNC machines, and reading several forums, i have to agree that tech support is a issue. Every machine has it's problems and issues.
My take on these machines are simple.
It is assumed that we all know how to run these machines and how they all work. Just look at the manuals that come with these machines. They assume you know how to put them together and run them. Next Wave manual has to be downloaded and trying to understand it isn't that easy.
I know I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you have to be kidding!
The reason tech support is hard to get hold of is because they are on the phones all day trying to explain what the manual doesn't.
Next Wave, Axiom and many other companies are somewhat new to the small shop woodworker market. I am sure they will eventually get things worked out, but when a home woodworker spends this kind of money, they want the machine to work and have tech support to assist when needed.
These machines are the most expensive tools we have and are the hardest to learn how to use them.
I don't have all the answers, I bought the CNC to be able to make things that would be difficult if not impossible to make using conventional tools.
Additionally, the learning curve is much longer than I expected. Some of it is from not ever working with cad software before and some from getting the machine to work properly.
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
"Thing about sharks is, they ain't got no bones. They's got cartilage. Bones stiff. Cartilage not so much. Think about it."
Thom "I bought one anyway" Randolph
Thom "I bought one anyway" Randolph
=====================================================
ThomR.com Creative tools and photographic art
A proud member of the Pacific Northwest CNC Club (now on Facebook)
ThomR.com Creative tools and photographic art
A proud member of the Pacific Northwest CNC Club (now on Facebook)
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
I'm not naive to the fact that there are better machines out there. Price point for the included features and my intended use is what keeps me coming back to the shark. I look at it like this..... I know that Snap-On tools are great. However, they come with a steep price. When one of my personal vehicles breaks down, can I fix it with the Craftsman or *cough*harbor freight*cough* tools that I have? Most definitely! If it were my bread and butter and fixing stuff is what I fed my family with, would I chose to go with a tool I know is going to hold up to the strain of daily and hourly use? You bet. My assumption on the Shark is that for the home hobbyist/tinker/person wanting to sell a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff, it will be more than adequate. If all of a sudden my business would skyrocket, I would definitely look at something that is more suited towards production.
Hey SteveM...... Interested in selling that laser you haven't unboxed????
Hey SteveM...... Interested in selling that laser you haven't unboxed????
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
I'll let you know about the laser!
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
Tech support, customer service and product documentation issues are not uncommon for a lot places I believe. Especially the documentation/owners manuals. Most are not written for the "I've never done that before" people. Anyone remember their first computer and the book that came with it? Now it is maybe a 10 page document and a flip card quick start guide. Need any more got to http://WWW...
The thing that has really helped the cnc, laser and similar type tools has been the user forums. I an a member and moderator of the forum of my first cnc machine. They have a fairly strong member presence each day with a lot of member sharing, trouble shooting and how to topics. That is why I got signed up here once I was asked to help friend set up his HD4 and will probably be his tech support for the machine and software. The forums allow you to see what issues others have had and probably the answers to the questions you have. So far I've got a couple of mine answered here.
I also signed up on the http://www.nextwaveautomation.com/forums/ but I am still waiting to be approved.
Does anyone see a "Shark for dummies" book very soon?
The thing that has really helped the cnc, laser and similar type tools has been the user forums. I an a member and moderator of the forum of my first cnc machine. They have a fairly strong member presence each day with a lot of member sharing, trouble shooting and how to topics. That is why I got signed up here once I was asked to help friend set up his HD4 and will probably be his tech support for the machine and software. The forums allow you to see what issues others have had and probably the answers to the questions you have. So far I've got a couple of mine answered here.
I also signed up on the http://www.nextwaveautomation.com/forums/ but I am still waiting to be approved.
Does anyone see a "Shark for dummies" book very soon?
Thanks,
FWHarris
FWHarris
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
So is the moral of the story that it's an OK machine but be prepared to learn on your own? I'm fine with that if that's the case. I taught myself how to use AutoCAD and some simplistic stuff on SolidWorks. Actually, I went to business school and taught myself process stuff to get the position I have. Learning doesn't bother me.
Re: Newbie looking at an HD4
Better to be looking elsewhere for a better built unit. This machine is a good beginner unit but won't hold up to serious woodworking. This machine has gantry flex which makes fine work almost impossible to accomplish. There are no limits switches to stop the machine from hard stopping. The servos do not have the repeat ability needed to do fine carving. I waited 6 weeks for this machine and am not impressed at all for the cost. I should have looked closer at all the plastic that makes up the unit. A little more fore thought should have gone into this router before it was put out there but what can you expect for 5k. I'm stuck with it so it will be delegated to roughing out projects.There are better machines out there for the same price point do your homework. 