Shark Vs K2CNC modle 14X14

[LAMEIII]

Haven't purchased my cnc as yet. I'm wondering how the shark compares to the K2cnc KT1414. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Lame

[billb]

There are differences.
The K2 is made here in my home town,Orange,Calif, with local support.
The k2 is a stronger machine with billett aluminum gantry which supports a bigger router
The user interface is Mach3 which is WAY bettr than what comes on the shark.
Un-fortunatly, I was working at Rockler at the time and went with the Shark Pro Plus, which was the wrong decision.

[Jack]

For over 3 times the price ( K2CNC Starts @ $14K) it should be a better CNC but I am very happy with the Shark Pro Plus. I have had it for a year and it has already paid for it's self with a spair time business

[rungemach]

From the K2 website, it looks like the 1414 is about $3400.00 equipped similarly to the regular (smaller) shark.
It is a small desktop machine, 14 x 14 x 5" travel, not the size of the pro. You can price their machines with various options on their website.
For pricing I used: mount for Colt router, V-carve software, aluminum top, Mach3, (user supplies PC).

I have some K2 equipment and it is very solid and sturdy. Also know folks with larger K2 machines.
I have a Shark Pro that I had to modify extensively to minimize flexing.
(My Shark Pro is now basically a Pro HD before they were being made that way).

I use Mach 3 and have had absolutely no issues with it.
It is much more featured than the current NCpod interface, but also a bit more complex to learn.

Currently using Vcarve or BobCad to generate the gcode. no problems with either.
Vcarve and Cut 2d are easier to learn than Bobcad.

MIsc thoughts :
The small shark should not have a lot of the flex issues that the Pro size sharks do (except the HD) as it has a shorter gantry and bearing shafts.
The K2 will accommodate large router, has bearing supported lead screws, cable carriers, home switches. (I had to add all of these to my shark pro)
Neither of these units use supported shafts, for a small machine it is not necessary, as the length increases it becomes a major issue with flex.

I hope continued competition in this market segment will make manufacturers up their game, and offer better value.
Romaxx is also offering some interesting equipment in this price range and size.
As always, try to be an informed consumer.

Bob

[Joraft]

... As always, try to be an informed consumer.

Good advice, Bob, and over all very good post.

With K2 being less than an hour from me, I looked at their machines first. There's no doubt in my mind that the K2 machines are better built than the Shark, but the closest K2 model to the Shark Pro Plus HD I could find is about $3000 more in the basic configuration. My conclusion is that the Shark HD is perfect for a guy like me, who is just starting out in CNC routing. If things go well, I'll move on up to something more serious later. Maybe Next Wave Automation will have also moved on up to building more serious machines by then as well.

I have already purchased (and paid for) my HD, and hope to recieve it in a few weeks. I made the decision to purchase it at the WIA Conference, after meeting and chatting for a while with Tim Owens and his lovely wife. I love to "buy American" whenever possible, and I like to work with young entrepreneurs working hard to grow a company. I grew several of my own during my working days, I understand the difficulties, and the rewards.

However, I will admit that I'm concerned that after reading nearly all of the over 5000 posts on this forum, I find that virtually all of the support is user to user, with very little from either the manufacturer or distributor. In fact, Al Wolford, Tech Services Manager for Rockler has only 19 posts in total here, with none being very "technical". The impression I got in my conversation with Tim before my purchase was that they were heavily involved here.

To be sure, the help offered here by Shark owners seems substantial, with a few owners offering help that demonstrates an incredible knowledge of the product and an impressive willingness to help. Nonetheless, having to rely so heavily on the kindness and help of other users is worrisome to me.

[Joraft]

While I can understand and respect some of the discussion here - the evaluation process discussed is similar to mine before purchasing my first CNC machine - I think the concern some may have by a perceived lack of participation in the forum is not warranted. This is a user forum for users to interchange ideas and challenges. I know Rockler and NWA monitor the board, and both chime in where mis-information is presented or clarity is needed. Since I've purchased my shark a year ago, NWA has also put in place a full time support tech. So, if you need detailed support from the vendor, there is someone dedicated to this (something that was lacking when I started out last November).

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim it is perfect - but I don't perceive it as a worry myself. If you look at the Vectric forum, you may perceive more manufacturer involvement, but I think that is the result of more posts - a larger customer base and a larger company. If you sized it to the Shark community, I suspect it would be similar.

Joe, first let me say that it didn't take me long in reading through the posts to recognize that you are one of the most helpful and knowledgeable members here. You are quite an asset to the forum.

If my concern about lack of participation on the part of Rockler and Next Wave Automation is unwarranted, that is indeed good news to me. Perhaps my disappointment stemmed from coming here and finding the situation to be quite different than the impression I got at the WIA Rockler booth, and also different than other brand specific CNC forums I've read through. You are likely right in the size of the customer base making the difference, I have no idea how many Sharks there are in circulation at this point in time, I guess only NWA knows for sure.

... if it performs within the specification range your projects require, then the Shark is probably the right buy. If not, then you do need to look for alternatives. Clearly the HD costs more than the ProPlus, which costs more than the Pro, etc...

Speaking for myself only, I've studied all the alternatives, decided on the HD and purchased it. So, for better or worse I'm in for the long haul. Good support for anything I buy is always somewhat of a concern, but I'm also fairly adept at problem solving and working with machines. I've built dozens of computers from the ground up, and have a lot of experience in troubleshooting them, including many of those problems that can leave one tearing their hair out (which I can't afford ). I was in the screen printing and embroidery business for over 14 years, and have a lot of experience in working with both vector and bit mapped graphics files, creating or cleaning them up, and converting one to the other. I also did embroidery digitizing for many years, which is essentially CNC (X and Y only). Embroidery is the art of drawing with thread, and programming for it takes the ability to visualize what the finished product will look like as the vector for each stitch is placed. I'm thinking that programming the movements of a router is very similar.

I could be wrong, but I believe that due to my background, getting comfortable with my Shark will not be too difficult for me. Nonetheless I'm sure to have lots of questions for all of you more experienced folks, and I hope that it won't be too long before I'm able to do my share of helping others.

[rungemach]

I would tend to agree with John on the observation of infrequent posts from Rockler or NWA.
I have seen times where a timely answer from the manufacturer would have been very helpful and appropriate.
"Users helping users" can only go so far when the manufacturer should have the best machine related technical information available.
The forum can be a great vehicle for communication from the manufacturer if used.
I would encourage anyone involved in the manufacture and sale of these machines to weigh in often and let the users get to know you.

Joe is correct when he mentions fitness for use for the job intended. Some work may need more precision than a typical carved sign where a few thousandths here or there is never noticed.
Although trying to get uniform thin lines with a v shaped bit does require a straight and well aligned machine and table. If you want to do fancy joints, interference fits, inlays etc, you might want high accuracy and a stiff machine. However, if we do not point out what we need / want, we might not get things like HD models from the factory.
As the machine gets better, the projects presented by users will get better too. Personally, I feel the HD is a "no brainer" over the Pro Plus and should be the standard Shark in that size range.

From my perspective the Shark fits in the market place between inexpensive wood framed machines and full metal construction. It is priced accordingly.
Like all products it will have its high and low points.

Its users are more apt to be new to CNC and the Shark is their entry point. We all need to start somewhere..
They will need a bit more support than the seasoned CNC pro. They may not know what questions to ask, and this forum is a great help in that.
IMHO the user input really shines in areas such as dust control, work holding, and the many "how to use it now that I have it" ideas.
"How to get it to work in the first place" questions are more of a factory issue to me, and it would be great if they could be more active in fielding these.

Bob

[Joraft]

I would tend to agree with John on the observation of infrequent posts from Rockler or NWA.
I have seen times where a timely answer from the manufacturer would have been very helpful and appropriate.
"Users helping users" can only go so far when the manufacturer should have the best machine related technical information available.
The forum can be a great vehicle for communication from the manufacturer if used.
I would encourage anyone involved in the manufacture and sale of these machines to weigh in often and let the users get to know you.

To be fair, the Shark is kind of a unique situation. All of the other smaller CNC routers I've seen are distributed directly by the manufacturer, and they handle all support and training for their customers directly. Rockler, like most power tool distributors, refers problems back to the respective manufacturers (beyond simple replacement). They cannot be expected to be experts on every machine they sell. And I'm guessing that few machines they distribute require the after-sale support that a CNC machine does.

Rockler providing this forum was a great idea, but it's clear that they have no intentions of providing much support beyond that. In my view, it is Next Wave Automation's that needs to do more. If they now have a full time support staff, they should be here more, answering questions and providing information. Certainly there are problems that must be handled "one on one", but problems solved in a public forum can help many, AND could greatly reduce the number of "one on one" phone calls they have to handle.

[REG]

Just my 2 cents; one must realize the average user typically has more runtime on the equipment than the manufacturer. This in conjunction with software, I would tend to consider the user being more of "been there, done that". Factory (NWA) and distributor (Rockler) know the product - just as a car dealer knows the car, but does that same dealer know real inner workings on the same level as the owner. NWA is busy refining/designing the machine and Rockler demonstrates the machine but us as owners/users on average get more weekly bench time with the Shark than NWA or Rockler.
Now, when a technical issues arrises and a forum member shares that concern, I've seen Tim submit suggestions a number of times. Besides, Tim has always been pretty timely in any email inquiry I send him. So be it through the forum of email directly NWA does engage in support.

Bobby

[Joraft]

... Factory (NWA) and distributor (Rockler) know the product - just as a car dealer knows the car, but does that same dealer know real inner workings on the same level as the owner. NWA is busy refining/designing the machine and Rockler demonstrates the machine but us as owners/users on average get more weekly bench time with the Shark than NWA or Rockler.

Any good dealership certainly knows the inner workings of a vehicle on a MUCH higher level than the owners. I was the service manager in a new car dealership for many years, and I sent all my techs to schools (taught by the manufacturer) for many days every year, just to increase their knowledge of the vehicles and keep up with changes. While the owner of a car may be the best person to know when something isn't working like normal, no one can know the inner workings better than those who designed it, built it, and/or repair them every day.

As for Rockler knowing the product, I don't think they can be expected to know much more about any of their products than how well they're made, how well they perform, and how well the manufacturers support them. I would expect that any that don't meet their standards are no longer sold by them. That's one of the main reasons to buy from them.