I've been using a new Porter Cable 892 router for the past year or so. It has worked fine, but a machine move has necessitated the purchase of a new router.
So I purchased a Bosch 1617 over the weekend and have begun to measure it to see whether I received a good one. Initial runout measurements in the collet cup show a runout of .00075". Not bad. I need to do more TIR measurements. I sometimes use tiny bits, and I frequently do production work with critical tolerances, so this is important.
But - it runs hot. Running it for only 30-60 seconds at moderate speed (setting 4) with no nut or collet results in quite a lot of heat in the shaft. As in "quickly getting hot!" Dramatically more heat than the 892. The 892 I used would only get warm after extended use. There might be a bit of bearing break-in, but I don't think so.
I briefly used a friend's 1617 and it also ran warm. Though I don't think it ran this warm. His had .006" of TIR, even after a bearing replacement, so I never used it for CNC routing.
So back to the garage I go, to run the router and measure the temps with the pyrometer.
Btw, I do seem to feel the variable speed control hunting on the speed a bit when I hold the router in my hands. Especially at lower speeds. I never noticed that on the PC, though I rarely ever hand held it. My router speed control box often produces the same result when used with tools.
New Bosch 1617 running hot?
Moderators: al wolford, sbk, Bob, Kayvon
Re: New Bosch 1617 running hot?
I have read some other reports of similar issues. I ran the router for about 15 minutes. The temp eventually stabilized. Still quite warm, especially the shaft and collet.
I have changed the bearings in a 1617 before. One of the weaknesses is the top assembly. It's pretty much just a bunch of plastic that aligns the upper bearing, etc. Of course most routers are now like that.
As a comparison, I dug out an old Bosch 1604. That's a constant 25K rpm router. I ran it for 10 minutes and the shaft assembly barely became warm. The air flow management makes that router much louder than the 1617. I would seriously consider using it in place of the 1617, but a gotcha is the start-up motor torque - it's really significant and I know it wouldn't be good for the Shark.
I have changed the bearings in a 1617 before. One of the weaknesses is the top assembly. It's pretty much just a bunch of plastic that aligns the upper bearing, etc. Of course most routers are now like that.
As a comparison, I dug out an old Bosch 1604. That's a constant 25K rpm router. I ran it for 10 minutes and the shaft assembly barely became warm. The air flow management makes that router much louder than the 1617. I would seriously consider using it in place of the 1617, but a gotcha is the start-up motor torque - it's really significant and I know it wouldn't be good for the Shark.
Re: New Bosch 1617 running hot?
Hi Glug - I haven't purchased a new 1617 for a year or so - but I've been using them now for a couple of years and don't really notice a hot spindle as you describe. Wonder if something changed or not in their design or parts, or you just stumbled into a lemon. Run these things for both short and long (24+ hours) and have had no issues.
Re: New Bosch 1617 running hot?
I purchased my Bosch 1617 21 Apr, 2014 and it too was running hot. The bearings started to freeze up after 5 weeks (I was doing production work on the float that will be in the city's parade), so I exchanged it for another 1617. So far it seems to be running fine.
Re: New Bosch 1617 running hot?
Well, I took my Noga mag base, a couple of test indicators, a pair of big clamps, and some other goodies down to Menards to measure some more routers for runout. I have an Interapid .0005" and a mitutoyo .0001".
There were two remaining 1617's on the shelf. One was an open box. I setup in an aisle to do the measurements, with the assistance of a sweet redhead sales associate. I may never speak ill of the help at Menards again! I measured the runout on both of them. Unfortunately, neither was an improvement over my example.
I also measured two of my Dad's older routers. And it was a good thing too, the chucks were dry and dirty, with spots of corrosion on the nuts. So they were really due for the TLC. One was the Bosch 1604 and the other an old Milwuakee. He uses his tools hard. Needless to say, they both measured much better than the three current Bosch examples.
Makita 3612BR 3.5HP plunge router:
.00022" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0002" TIR .4" from end of socket
TIR is offset
Bosch 1604:
.00032" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0002" TIR .4" from end of socket
TIR is offset
Bosch 1617 1:
.0007" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0004" TIR .4" from end of socket
Bosch 1617 2:
.0007" TIR .050" from end of socket
.4" from end of socket - did not check
Bosch 1617 3:
.0008" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0006" TIR .4" from end of socket
One nice thing about all of these routers is they are exhibiting TIR as Offset, rather than Skew. Skew gets worse as the bit gets longer. Offset does not. So offset is not nearly as bad as skew.
I am now kicking myself for not measuring a hitachi while I was at Menards. I should have also asked to power up the other 1617's to see if they also quickly heated. I have read about some collet sticking issues with the Hitachi in online reviews,, and general comments of cheapness vs the Bosch, and that kinda put me off them. Though I will be using Precise Bits 'collets, so that is likely a non-issue. Since I already have my new PB collets for the Bosch, the fact that they will also work with the Hitachi is an essential feature.
There were two remaining 1617's on the shelf. One was an open box. I setup in an aisle to do the measurements, with the assistance of a sweet redhead sales associate. I may never speak ill of the help at Menards again! I measured the runout on both of them. Unfortunately, neither was an improvement over my example.
I also measured two of my Dad's older routers. And it was a good thing too, the chucks were dry and dirty, with spots of corrosion on the nuts. So they were really due for the TLC. One was the Bosch 1604 and the other an old Milwuakee. He uses his tools hard. Needless to say, they both measured much better than the three current Bosch examples.
Makita 3612BR 3.5HP plunge router:
.00022" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0002" TIR .4" from end of socket
TIR is offset
Bosch 1604:
.00032" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0002" TIR .4" from end of socket
TIR is offset
Bosch 1617 1:
.0007" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0004" TIR .4" from end of socket
Bosch 1617 2:
.0007" TIR .050" from end of socket
.4" from end of socket - did not check
Bosch 1617 3:
.0008" TIR .050" from end of socket
.0006" TIR .4" from end of socket
One nice thing about all of these routers is they are exhibiting TIR as Offset, rather than Skew. Skew gets worse as the bit gets longer. Offset does not. So offset is not nearly as bad as skew.
I am now kicking myself for not measuring a hitachi while I was at Menards. I should have also asked to power up the other 1617's to see if they also quickly heated. I have read about some collet sticking issues with the Hitachi in online reviews,, and general comments of cheapness vs the Bosch, and that kinda put me off them. Though I will be using Precise Bits 'collets, so that is likely a non-issue. Since I already have my new PB collets for the Bosch, the fact that they will also work with the Hitachi is an essential feature.
Re: New Bosch 1617 running hot?
I measured a fourth Bosch 1617. Same poor result. I had thought that unit might be a solution. I was hoping to snag an older display model from a nearby hardware store, but the display model was very new. I also measured a display Porter Cable 892. It measured poorly. Those are also much louder than the Bosch.
I also went back to Menards and powered up one of those previously measured 1617's. It quickly (60 seconds) heated up, like mine.
While at Menards I checked out the display Hitachi unit..... It did not heat up! Encouraged by that, I chose to take one home. I really should have measured it at the store, but the clerk was extremely unhelpful (ah yes, that was the Menards I remembered!). I carefully examined the Hitachi boxes for one that appeared unopened (they are not sealed like Bosch). Finding one, I opened it and confirm that it had likely never been out of the box. I also purchased a piece of 3" drain pipe to use as material for building a space (bonus: the guy in Plumbing was extremely helpful and even carried the pipe to the front of the store for me. We had a good chat about CNC machines and the cheapening of tools). The Hitachi body diameter is 3.25", unlike the 3.5" of the Shark mount and other routers.
It was a bit of a hassle taking a 9' long piece of drain pipe home in the car, sticking out the window. I unboxed the router for measurement and was stopped dead in my tracks. The collar that helps to retain the spindle shaft was cross-threaded. Badly. Here I was thinking I was going to measure runout with a test indicator that measures .0001" and what I had was a crooked part that could be seen from five or six feet away! Hah. So much for QC.
Since I had it, I decided to measure it. As soon as I removed the collet nut I could see that it was junk. The only appropriate way to machine the collet socket is to grind it. Turning it or "machining" it is too crude to meet the necessary tolerance. Grinding is a much more costly process. This one was turned with a single point tool. And it was turned poorly and quickly. The ridges were rough and snagged the cloth I used to clean the bore. The outer edge was also poorly finished (or not finished). It measured poorly.
The really sad part of this is it seems that it is getting very difficult to buy a very good router new. The units for sale just a couple-few years ago were much better. But those wood handles on the Bosch sure look purty! I'll bet they lead to a lot of sales. The old routers in the tool cabinet are likely better than any new router you can buy.
I am not pleased about the amount of time I have had to spend on this, and I still don't have a good solution. I am looking at the 1.5KW Chinese spindles.
I also went back to Menards and powered up one of those previously measured 1617's. It quickly (60 seconds) heated up, like mine.
While at Menards I checked out the display Hitachi unit..... It did not heat up! Encouraged by that, I chose to take one home. I really should have measured it at the store, but the clerk was extremely unhelpful (ah yes, that was the Menards I remembered!). I carefully examined the Hitachi boxes for one that appeared unopened (they are not sealed like Bosch). Finding one, I opened it and confirm that it had likely never been out of the box. I also purchased a piece of 3" drain pipe to use as material for building a space (bonus: the guy in Plumbing was extremely helpful and even carried the pipe to the front of the store for me. We had a good chat about CNC machines and the cheapening of tools). The Hitachi body diameter is 3.25", unlike the 3.5" of the Shark mount and other routers.
It was a bit of a hassle taking a 9' long piece of drain pipe home in the car, sticking out the window. I unboxed the router for measurement and was stopped dead in my tracks. The collar that helps to retain the spindle shaft was cross-threaded. Badly. Here I was thinking I was going to measure runout with a test indicator that measures .0001" and what I had was a crooked part that could be seen from five or six feet away! Hah. So much for QC.
Since I had it, I decided to measure it. As soon as I removed the collet nut I could see that it was junk. The only appropriate way to machine the collet socket is to grind it. Turning it or "machining" it is too crude to meet the necessary tolerance. Grinding is a much more costly process. This one was turned with a single point tool. And it was turned poorly and quickly. The ridges were rough and snagged the cloth I used to clean the bore. The outer edge was also poorly finished (or not finished). It measured poorly.
The really sad part of this is it seems that it is getting very difficult to buy a very good router new. The units for sale just a couple-few years ago were much better. But those wood handles on the Bosch sure look purty! I'll bet they lead to a lot of sales. The old routers in the tool cabinet are likely better than any new router you can buy.
I am not pleased about the amount of time I have had to spend on this, and I still don't have a good solution. I am looking at the 1.5KW Chinese spindles.