Is this doable with the CNC Shark Pro Plus HD?

[Paula]

Detail of the leaves

Bird detail

This is the back of the piece

I am seriously considering buying one of these machines. I sent these photos to Rockler wanting to know if they thought I could use the probe to scan this piece and then reproduce it. They did not know and they told me to ask on this forum. I realize it will take hand carving to finalize it, but I want to know if the probe will make an accurate program of the part and then rough it in and then I can hand finish it as needed. I am not concerned how long it takes to probe it or cut it, I know it may take a while if I want a really smooth finish. What do you guys think?

I was thinking I could mount it on a couple of dowel pins, do the back first, then flip it and keep it located accurately with the dowels and then do the front side. When it is all done I can plug up the dowel holes that will probably need to come all the way through to do both sides. Any advice or ideas would be very much appreciated. I am completely new to this and I have no idea what the limitations are of this machine or the software. I do have experience with CNC milling machines and lathes but not much 3D experience.

Thank you for your help.


Paula

[jeb2cav]

Hi Paula,

I think there's a good chance/opportunity that the probe could scan this. You may have to scan it in chunks and put it back together using Aspire (an upgrade to VCarve Pro).

Aspire would also be needed to help you clean up the scan - and in fact you could add some details back in as needed vice hand carving using Aspire and then carving with the Shark.

My biggest concern would be the height/depth of the bird. Hard to gauge from the picture.

The approach you describe to the milling though is exactly the approach I'd use though - mill the 'back' first, and then flip it.

[Paula]

Hi Paula,

I think there's a good chance/opportunity that the probe could scan this. You may have to scan it in chunks and put it back together using Aspire (an upgrade to VCarve Pro).

Aspire would also be needed to help you clean up the scan - and in fact you could add some details back in as needed vice hand carving using Aspire and then carving with the Shark.

My biggest concern would be the height/depth of the bird. Hard to gauge from the picture.

The approach you describe to the milling though is exactly the approach I'd use though - mill the 'back' first, and then flip it.

Thank you Joe for your response.

The highest portion of the bird measures 1" above the backside as it sits flat on the table. If you need more info or photos let me know, I am desperate for good information. I really want to buy this machine but if it won't do what I need it to there is no point. I would gladly buy the Aspire or any other necessary software to be able to do this and other projects like it. I really love machines and any excuse is good enough to buy one when I can afford one.

You mention cleaning it up and adding detail back with the Aspire, by any chance would that mean with the Aspire I can maybe add in a couple of the broken loops of the vines? If you look at the photo of the back of the part you can see 2 pieces broken off, one on either side of the center. I was thinking I would need to JB weld pieces in here and shape them up before I scanned it, if I can do with the software that sounds a lot easier.

Also once I was able to do it I was hoping to enlarge it as needed in the software which would make the bird depth more than 1" deep but that would be cutting the part, not scanning the part. Is your concern with the height in the scanning or in the cutting, or both?

Paula

[jeb2cav]

Hi Paula,

My biggest concern was the depth of the scan. I'd have to go out and measure the length of the probe - but I know it is more than 1". If the bird was 3" or more for example, then the collet might've run into the bird before the probe 'got to the bottom'. You're also scanning in a linear motion, so sharp angles may come out a little less than expected. Overall though I think this would scan fine.

At face value, I think you could come up with a workflow with the probe and Aspire that would enable you to do this. That being said, it's not something you're going to do 'the first time'. This piece for example has multiple levels and is 2 sided. The bird is 'floating' above the plane. I'd probably set this on the table with a piece of luan behind the bird to serve as the '0', scan it and surrounding area, then do the flat pieces separately (also to line them up as the scan area is defined by a rectangle currently - you can't create a diagonal box area for example) and then piece this together in Aspire. I've found that Aspire is almost required for this to clean up the scans to be good enough in either case.

Once you have the scan though, you can change the size of the model in Aspire. Again, you can also use the 3D tools in Aspire to carve 'back in' details, or add new details.

You can download fully functional trial versions of VCarve and Aspire from the Vectric website. Then march your way through the tutorials (extremely important, well worth the time, the only useful software tutorials I've run across in my experience) - before you buy any of this to get a sense of the workflow and what might be possible.

[Consultingwoodworker]

You also need to know that these machines can NOT do under cuts.

It can do a lot of the carving to get the details but not, for example, under the rings shown in the first picture unless you do two programs, one for each side.

Not impossible, but difficult. I would write a program to mill the back first removing the various levels, then flip the part over and set it in a fixture to carve the front. If the fixture for part two is milled on the machine, then the part will be in a known location to accurately mill the face.

Ralph

[Paula]

You also need to know that these machines can NOT do under cuts.

It can do a lot of the carving to get the details but not, for example, under the rings shown in the first picture unless you do two programs, one for each side.

Not impossible, but difficult. I would write a program to mill the back first removing the various levels, then flip the part over and set it in a fixture to carve the front. If the fixture for part two is milled on the machine, then the part will be in a known location to accurately mill the face.

Ralph

Thank you Ralph for the good advice. I was thinking I need to do the back first and then the front also but I was going to put holes in the pattern and finished part for small dowel pins to align when I flipped the part. Your idea of using a fixture to hold it seems like a way better way to do it and I don't have to mar things up and putty up holes when I was done.

Thank you again for the help, it is appreciated.

Paula

[geraldjohs]

It might be easier to have someone from vectric draw this for you. They do custom modeling.

Gerald

[GARYR6]

You should know that probe work can be challenging. The point cloud created may take long hours to develop and to clean up and convert to a STL file. It is not really a scan and cut operation. I would suggest you drop in on some other forums and search scan, probe operations and get a broader feel for the operation and time it takes. While probing may result in a faster solution than learning to do modeling work (which would require ASPIRE vrs. cut 3D), spend a few hours reading about the operation before you buy.
I personally went to 3d scanning equipment to solve the problem, it cost more but in my world time is money. For what its worth, happy cutting and remember to post pics of your work.

[Paula]

Thanks for idea Gerald. That is something to consider but I would like to do this myself. It is more satisfying that way, in fact I would really like to learn modeling work in Aspire as Gary mentioned. I think that would be even more satisfying. I do plan on buying the Aspire.

Gary, what kind of 3D scanning equipment did you buy? Do you have a link to it?

Again, thank you to everyone for the help.

Paula