Z Axis Issues

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BillConroy
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by BillConroy »

I was trying to clarify what you were suggesting and was not trying to say heat couldn't be an issue. I do a lot of computer/robotic design work and have no issue trying to address a heat issue if that could cause the issues I've seen.

Depending on what I see when I open the case, if there is space inside case for a heat sink, I could put a heatsink inside case that is connected directly to a heatsink on outside. Then I could cool the inside of the case down while minimizing the potential for dust issues due to compromising case integrity. If that is unworkable I have no issue putting fans into case. My controller is built into the bottom of a custom cabinet I put device into. I would think I would have to get controller behind some type of filtering strategy so I don't pull dust into cabinet after I breach the case integrity.

Relative to power, I do have the CNC connected to a computer server grade UPS that is significantly oversized relative to the requirements of the device. I discounted the possibility of a brownout due to the capacity of the UPS and that the device is isolated from commercial power. The UPS didn't report any power issues during event.

Thanks for the help, I may instrument the case with real time temperature sensing to monitor the temperature inside the case.

Bill

Rando
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Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by Rando »

Sounds good: nice to see someone who knows which end of a soldering iron to NOT hold.

I'd just go ahead and open it up. In mine, a now-old HD2, they did all sorts of odd things, like routing the 120VAC cable that fed the (always nice and clean) router motor directly over the CPU. I went in a pretty much re-arranged the inside, made a fan cutout and blew that over the drivers.

You'll see when you get in there, they're tiny little things. If you're going to go with passive re-radiation, a fan to circulate the air inside the sealed enclosure would be key, yes? Hopefully it won't just even-out the high temp across the box and making things worse :( .

To make a real improvement, I'd get rid of driver boards, get some beefier 4+A stepper drivers, a bigger, 30V power supply, and then just connect to the EN/STEP/DIRECTION signals on the connectors. Those $6-7 modules from eBay have a more-properly sized heatsink.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-New-TB660 ... 3995034801

In the near future, that's a step I'll be taking: bringing up a parallel LinuxCNC machine where I can just switch between the two controllers.

If you're like me, the more you dig into their design, using your professional eye, you'll "see things."

Rando
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BillConroy
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by BillConroy »

I'm on the road working for next 6 weeks. I will post approach I use to get the heat levels down. I will definitely put a heat probe with real time logging to see the before and after impact of whatever approach I take. If there is interest I can post the heat sensor circuit and either the arduino or pi circuit I build to monitor the controller. My guess is I'll use an internal fan and possibly a heat sink combination.

I just hope that fixes the issue.

Bill

Rando
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Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by Rando »

Cool; look forward to it.

It'll fix THAT issue...whether that issue caused your intermittent failures, sadly, only time will tell. I hate problems not resolvable to a root cause, but sadly, many are!

Hope the travels and road-time go well for you; stay healthy, unless somehow you live on a planet without the current plague...

Rando
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ThomR.com Creative tools and photographic art
A proud member of the Pacific Northwest CNC Club (now on Facebook)

monitoringpost
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:40 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by monitoringpost »

mdcavanaugh wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:13 pm
Tim,

What about cooling? Box gets warm!

Mike
Tim Owens wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:05 pm
as long as the box is still warm to the touch you should be fine.
Just saying... from the horses mouth!
Last edited by monitoringpost on Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rando
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Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by Rando »

Well that sure is definitive! Such robust data collection, morningafterpost.

Yeah, those are the UL regulations that prevent him from getting sued. Whether the box is hot to the touch is not a reliable indicator of whether there's an internal over-temp condition going on. And for you to claim that's what the business-owner claimed is nothing but you setting him up for a liability lawsuit.

No doubt you think all those failed Teflon "non-stick" pans were indeed the fault of the consumer too....
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ThomR.com Creative tools and photographic art
A proud member of the Pacific Northwest CNC Club (now on Facebook)

BillConroy
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by BillConroy »

Finally got back to this issue. Working with the next wave folks we determined the z-axis board failed. The support folks were great working through all the different aspects of the issue. When I received the new z axis board I examined the internals. I am not sure about previous versions of the controller board but the 510 circuit boards sit on extremely large heat sinks. I would be shocked if this configuration is hampered by heat issues. The heat sink itself is connected to the case and should dissipate heat easily. To make sure I built a thermal logging circuit and will place the logger into the case and log the temps running a few very long carves. If I see any strange temperature patterns I will provide to next wave and this thread.

Bill Conroy

Rando
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Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by Rando »

That's great you resolved it, Bill!

That's hilarious about the heatsink: no, we don't need a fan... :roll: ...it'll be fine... :roll: ....no, those long-runtime failures can't be heat build-up... :twisted:

Okay, fine... :x ...we'll add a heatsink and TEST the theory.... :oops:

LOL..... :D
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ThomR.com Creative tools and photographic art
A proud member of the Pacific Northwest CNC Club (now on Facebook)

BillConroy
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by BillConroy »

I don't understand the aggressive derogatory post. I was giving an update about an issue I was working through. I am a serious computer guy that builds data centers for a living and robotics with my grandchildren for fun. I gave a professional opinion of the internal heat sinks of the controller in the SD510. I am happy to post the pictures I took of the inside of the controller case where I measured the size of the heatsinks if folks would like to see them. It is apparent they have made a lot of improvements as there are no strange cable runs, and the interior looks very well designed. The interior of my controller box doesn't look anything like the older versions other folks have described.

Also as I stated I have completed the temperature logger to place inside case to monitor heat level through some very long carves. I should be able to provide the heat curve plots to anyone interested. As a serious engineer I question everything and don't assume I've found the root cause of an issue until I can prove it. If anyone wants I am happy to provide the arduino and logging shield design and source code to run a temperature logger for themselves if they would like. A fan for me would be a last option as I abhor the concept of opening up a reasonably tight case containing electronics in a high dust environment. If I do detect a heat issue, I will design something to remove the heat without requiring keeping the case open during cnc operation.

I appreciate the forum where folks can exchange their experiences. Not all of us have your experience with this equipment, it doesn't mean we don't have experiences. I understand that folks may have not have had a positive experience in the past. The current Shark CNC (SD510) seems to be an excellent piece of equipment. It is a significant upgrade from the initial Shapeoko CNC I built as a DYI. The Shark isn't a $50,0000 piece of equipment but it seems a pretty reasonable machine for under $5000. There are places I think the platform could be improved and have provided the info to Nextwave. I don't understand all the folks that immediately believe the company in covering itself against liability concerns and go so negative. It gets very difficult to carry on a discussion when folks feel like they need to score some type of points.

sharkcutup
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Re: Z Axis Issues

Post by sharkcutup »

I don't understand all the folks that immediately believe the company in covering itself against liability concerns and go so negative
Come on! Do you really think the company is covering itself against liability concerns? Their CNC Controller box is a joke! This is a Company since day one that has cut corners in every way to minimize costs!

Granted over time this Companies products have matured and gotten bit better but the concerns expressed on this thread with the control box still evidently need improvement!

Just my Opinion/Thoughts!

Sharkcutup
Shark HD3 Pro Plus Extended Bed with Water-Cooled Spindle
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